Heads up about program changes

[JohnM]

I am getting more concerned.Have just booked our DONE4 for mid next year.Under the old system it would earn 1360 SCs.Now I thought 950 SCs.But checking on the new MMB it now has grouped our flights.
EG BNE-SYD-LAX-DFW-LGA is shown as flight 1 BNE-NYC.LAX-DFW-LGA are booked with the AA flight numbers so mrsdrron should earn 400 SCs.But if they treat it as 1 flight that will be 280 SCs.
With the other groupings they have made this will make the earn just 700 SCs and no way can mrsdrron maintain WP.And if that is the case then QF will not get any further revenue from us.Flying to the US or Europe will be via Asia and other OW airlines.Domestic flights will be VA.We will both credit to AA.

Just check whether the grouping is by date of travel. My 16-sector DONE5 shows as 9 groups of sequential flight clusters by date of first flight in the cluster. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[katiebell]

I am getting more concerned.Have just booked our DONE4 for mid next year.Under the old system it would earn 1360 SCs.Now I thought 950 SCs.But checking on the new MMB it now has grouped our flights.
EG BNE-SYD-LAX-DFW-LGA is shown as flight 1 BNE-NYC.LAX-DFW-LGA are booked with the AA flight numbers so mrsdrron should earn 400 SCs.But if they treat it as 1 flight that will be 280 SCs.
With the other groupings they have made this will make the earn just 700 SCs and no way can mrsdrron maintain WP.And if that is the case then QF will not get any further revenue from us.Flying to the US or Europe will be via Asia and other OW airlines.Domestic flights will be VA.We will both credit to AA.

fairer and simpler??? If so why do so many experienced FFers have different answers? Qantas propaganda department has outdone itself this time. A whole new level of enhancement...

 

[JohnM]

fairer and simpler??? If so why do so many experienced FFers have different answers? Qantas propaganda department has outdone itself this time. A whole new level of enhancement...

I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as you imply - but I'd like to see drron's response to the question I raised in the post that immediately preceded yours.

 

[drron]

Mine are grouped by date.If a transit then the flights are grouped.if a stopover then the start of a new group.
What worries me is the new simpler and fairer table says things such as Europe to Asia and gives a set SC earn no matter what the distance.So one of the groups is AY CPH-HEL-BKK.Now will that be classed as an Europe to Asia sector even though 2 different flight numbers.The table doesn't say.Now I presumed it would be 2 different sectors but the way they have grouped the flights has me wondering.And with QFF lately anything is possible.

 

[JohnM]

Mine are grouped by date.If a transit then the flights are grouped.if a stopover then the start of a new group.
What worries me is the new simpler and fairer table says things such as Europe to Asia and gives a set SC earn no matter what the distance.So one of the groups is AY CPH-HEL-BKK.Now will that be classed as an Europe to Asia sector even though 2 different flight numbers.The table doesn't say.Now I presumed it would be 2 different sectors but the way they have grouped the flights has me wondering.And with QFF lately anything is possible.

I very much doubt that each date-related 'cluster' of flights will be considered the set SC-earn that you fear - but I agree that QF changes have put the fear of God up people, in their inimitable work-experience student style :evil:. I'm sure it will still be flight-number based - it had better be! Think of the complexity of trying to do it by 'cluster'!

If in doubt, I'd suggest that you PM Red Roo.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The terms and conditions define a 'flight' as one way travel with a single flight number.

If you have different flight numbers you earn SCs for each flight.

 

[RooFlyer]

I am getting more concerned.Have just booked our DONE4 for mid next year.Under the old system it would earn 1360 SCs.Now I thought 950 SCs.But checking on the new MMB it now has grouped our flights.
EG BNE-SYD-LAX-DFW-LGA is shown as flight 1 BNE-NYC.LAX-DFW-LGA are booked with the AA flight numbers so mrsdrron should earn 400 SCs.But if they treat it as 1 flight that will be 280 SCs.
With the other groupings they have made this will make the earn just 700 SCs and no way can mrsdrron maintain WP.And if that is the case then QF will not get any further revenue from us.Flying to the US or Europe will be via Asia and other OW airlines.Domestic flights will be VA.We will both credit to AA.

I'm pretty sure I have seen this MMB multi sector grouping before and I don't think its relevant to calculating SCs. I couldn't figure it out at the time, but nothing different happened.

 

[OATEK]

The terms and conditions define a 'flight' as one way travel with a single flight number.

If you have different flight numbers you earn SCs for each flight.

I am sure that is everyone's expectation, so it will be very valuable to us to have some accurate reporting from AFFers as the Pts/SCs post for the partner fares. Like Drron I have an AY multi-flight booking (SYD-HKG-HEL-CDG//TXL-HEL-BKK-SYD) which I would count as 6 flights, each with separate points and SC earn. I don't want to be "clustered"!

 

[drron]

I'm pretty sure I have seen this MMB multi sector grouping before and I don't think its relevant to calculating SCs. I couldn't figure it out at the time, but nothing different happened.

Thanks.More reassuring to see what has happened in practice than take the word of QFF.

 

[SydneySwan]

Thanks.More reassuring to see what has happened in practice than take the word of QFF.

You can always take the word of QFF - it is just not clear what the 'word' means!

 

[anat0l]

Why are people over thinking this just because it's a new zone system rather than mileage system?

I don't think the definition of 'flight' has changed - if the flight number does not change, it's one flight. If it does, then it's another. You evaluate each flight on its respective merits.

If there was a new MMB with the old system, would people add up all the mileages together then look up the zone band? No.

Note that if someone purchased Sydney to London Heathrow as one 'sector' (i.e. QF1), even though it goes via Dubai as far as I know QF MMB actually displays it as only one "sector", i.e. you don't even see the Dubai information unless you open up the detailed flight information.

Also, again I haven't seen the new QF MMB, but the practice of grouping segments into one "flight" is not groundbreaking new and should not be a surprise at all to experienced travellers.

 

[serfty]

[-]The problem is the tool is providing result as if same day segments are "the one flight".[/-]

[edit]

OK, I was perceiving drron's post incorrectly - and assumed the 'journey' (al la AirNZ) was being provisioned.

I had read the post to believe he had actually put each segment in for each of those 'flights' and the calculator was coming out with 280, not 400.
​

[/edit]

 

[JohnK]

Mine are grouped by date.If a transit then the flights are grouped.if a stopover then the start of a new group.
What worries me is the new simpler and fairer table says things such as Europe to Asia and gives a set SC earn no matter what the distance.

I wouldn't worry too much about this one. Each different flight/carrier is going to earn separately.

 

[RooFlyer]

Why are people over thinking this just because it's a new zone system rather than mileage system?

I don't think the definition of 'flight' has changed - if the flight number does not change, it's one flight. If it does, then it's another. You evaluate each flight on its respective merits.

If there was a new MMB with the old system, would people add up all the mileages together then look up the zone band? No.

Note that if someone purchased Sydney to London Heathrow as one 'sector' (i.e. QF1), even though it goes via Dubai as far as I know QF MMB actually displays it as only one "sector", i.e. you don't even see the Dubai information unless you open up the detailed flight information.

Also, again I haven't seen the new QF MMB, but the practice of grouping segments into one "flight" is not groundbreaking new and should not be a surprise at all to experienced travellers.

When you have an experienced traveller like drron querying thes things, it's a sure sign of a breakdown in trust of the airline.

With all the changes in QFF, and the numerous errors, over long periods ( eg xASA phone booking fee) who knows what is ' normal ', what's a screw up, what's a change, and what's correct?

Change earn rates, post on web site - wrong, change, wrong, change again, cut privileges, change lounge access, change other entitlements, cut CD - too bad that you've already booked it, it's just been cancelled, more changes. Change web site again. More errors.

And so it goes on.

And on.

I wouldn't trust QF management with my lunch money. Not because I think they are dishonest; no, it's because certain core competences appear to be lacking.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

the definition of 'flight' hasn't changed. if there was a corresponding change in the definitions, I'd be concerned as well!

 

[RooFlyer]

the definition of 'flight' hasn't changed. if there was a corresponding change in the definitions, I'd be concerned as well!

There has been many a change to QFF detected by AFFers before any announcement (if any) by QF.

 

[Himeno]

the definition of 'flight' hasn't changed. if there was a corresponding change in the definitions, I'd be concerned as well!

The new "zone" base earn rates are based on the EK program.
The EK program earn is based on trips, not flights. Skywards treats SYD-xDXB-JFK as SYD-JFK.

Who knows if/when QFF will take the next step towards matching Skywards.

 

[JohnK]

Who knows if/when QFF will take the next step towards matching Skywards.

I am not convinced that partnership is as solid as some people think.

 

[hossein_au]

I am not convinced that partnership is as solid as some people think.

Agree 100%; partnership implies all parties bring something to the table and they all benefit. QF-EK "thingie" is the case of one leeching the other one dry, and once there is no more juicy bits left, one will be left for dead...

 

[katiebell]

Why are people over thinking this just because it's a new zone system rather than mileage system?

I don't think the definition of 'flight' has changed - if the flight number does not change, it's one flight. If it does, then it's another. You evaluate each flight on its respective merits.

If there was a new MMB with the old system, would people add up all the mileages together then look up the zone band? No.

Note that if someone purchased Sydney to London Heathrow as one 'sector' (i.e. QF1), even though it goes via Dubai as far as I know QF MMB actually displays it as only one "sector", i.e. you don't even see the Dubai information unless you open up the detailed flight information.

Also, again I haven't seen the new QF MMB, but the practice of grouping segments into one "flight" is not groundbreaking new and should not be a surprise at all to experienced travellers.

In the old system J SYD-LHR or MEL-LHR on QF01 or QF09 earned 240 SC. If changing flights in DXB or SIN the earn was 280 (& the same with CX via HKG). My understanding is that with the new system we will earn the same SC on a Qf flight whether we change aircraft/flight number or not and less if not a QF flight.

We have always earned SC within bands. It is just that the new bands are less favourable to loyal members.