Heads up about program changes

[anat0l]

The problem is the tool is providing result as if same day segments are "the one flight".

Which is not new; maybe in MMB world it is but it is not at all new across the world, even CMT has done a similar thing for a while. Maybe not a whole day, but the way flights have been presented has never affected how people know what one flight is at least in terms of the QFF system.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your comment. Does the new MMB "hide" all the details of the flights in transit? For example, given drron's routing, on MMB would it present "Brisbane to New York" without being able to see that it goes via Sydney, Los Angeles and Dallas Fort Worth?

I've just shoved drron's "combined" lot into QF's calculator. It wouldn't let me just type BNE-LGA, so I had to split it as the routing he has given. I put the date of all segments on the same day (which is likely the same thing in real life anyway). It spits out 400 SCs (assuming the first two segments in QF Business and final two in AA First).

I also checked the QFF T&Cs on the website. It gives:

'Flight' means one way travel (without a Stopover) on a scheduled air service with a single flight number (even if the travel includes a change of aircraft). If travel includes a change of flight number, each change is a new Flight even if there is no change of aircraft;

SCs (and points) are calculated on the basis of Eligible Flights, so that hasn't changed.

Also, has anyone here had two or more flights on the same day (or even just under the same marketed / sold flight option) under the new system? Anyone had any SCs not credited for individual flights and not been able to argue for credit as it should be? Anyone? (Now can you put your guns away now...)

In the old system J SYD-LHR or MEL-LHR on QF01 or QF09 earned 240 SC. If changing flights in DXB or SIN the earn was 280 (& the same with CX via HKG). My understanding is that with the new system we will earn the same SC on a Qf flight whether we change aircraft/flight number or not and less if not a QF flight.

Which is precisely correct. But not because the new QF MMB combines them into one flight, or the definition of a flight has changed. If you were to add up the SCs for SYD-DXB-LHR vs SYD-LHR as ticketed (viz. East Australia to Dubai to UK/Europe, versus East Australia to UK/Europe), you'll find the two totals are exactly the same.

There has been no change to the definition of a flight. If there has, something definitely would have been said. And, as someone else seemed to allude to with great exclusionary confidence, AFF would have found it a whole lot faster than QFF would advise it so.

When you have an experienced traveller like drron querying thes things, it's a sure sign of a breakdown in trust of the airline.

One person questioned it and hardly anyone afterwards added anything useful to that, just commented on it. No one has even given an experience of it actually crediting incorrectly as alluded to. And no one even mentioned whether they contacted QF about it and accordingly received a response. All of the sudden we have a Salem Witch Trial where one accusation and a few feeble backups are enough to condemn a woman to the witch "test". In fact, it is not even a test, it is actually instant death without a trial. Brilliant.

 

[JohnM]

Ouch anat0l!; maybe you could say what you really think? :shock:

 

[anat0l]

Ouch anat0l!; maybe you could say what you really think? :shock:

Can't - will garner a TOS violation for it.

 

[RooFlyer]

Which is not new; maybe in MMB world it is but it is not at all new across the world, even CMT has done a similar thing for a while. Maybe not a whole day, but the way flights have been presented has never affected how people know what one flight is at least in terms of the QFF system.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your comment. Does the new MMB "hide" all the details of the flights in transit? For example, given drron's routing, on MMB would it present "Brisbane to New York" without being able to see that it goes via Sydney, Los Angeles and Dallas Fort Worth?

I've just shoved drron's "combined" lot into QF's calculator. It wouldn't let me just type BNE-LGA, so I had to split it as the routing he has given. I put the date of all segments on the same day (which is likely the same thing in real life anyway). It spits out 400 SCs (assuming the first two segments in QF Business and final two in AA First).

I also checked the QFF T&Cs on the website. It gives:

SCs (and points) are calculated on the basis of Eligible Flights, so that hasn't changed.

Also, has anyone here had two or more flights on the same day (or even just under the same marketed / sold flight option) under the new system? Anyone had any SCs not credited for individual flights and not been able to argue for credit as it should be? Anyone? (Now can you put your guns away now...)



Which is precisely correct. But not because the new QF MMB combines them into one flight, or the definition of a flight has changed. If you were to add up the SCs for SYD-DXB-LHR vs SYD-LHR as ticketed (viz. East Australia to Dubai to UK/Europe, versus East Australia to UK/Europe), you'll find the two totals are exactly the same.

There has been no change to the definition of a flight. If there has, something definitely would have been said. And, as someone else seemed to allude to with great exclusionary confidence, AFF would have found it a whole lot faster than QFF would advise it so.



One person questioned it and hardly anyone afterwards added anything useful to that, just commented on it. No one has even given an experience of it actually crediting incorrectly as alluded to. And no one even mentioned whether they contacted QF about it and accordingly received a response. All of the sudden we have a Salem Witch Trial where one accusation and a few feeble backups are enough to condemn a woman to the witch "test". In fact, it is not even a test, it is actually instant death without a trial. Brilliant.

You've obviously given the issue a great deal of time, attention and follow-up - I for one am most grateful for that. A number of ex-cathedra statements, so I'm guessing you have certain definitive knowledge of what's going on within MMB, so again, that's useful here. There appears to be some sensitivity to the criticism however, which is a bit unfortunate. I apologise if I hit a raw nerve, but unfortunately from my point of view QF has brought much of the criticism upon itself, in the utterly ham fisted way it handles its web site and the enhancements a-plenty to its program. There have been a number of examples given in AFF recently about contradictory advice being given within the QF web site and/or by Qantas front-line staff, so a quote here and there isn't necessarily that illuminating. But happy days, certain folks know the answers; its just a matter of them devoting he time and effort to let us know the facts.

Just a reminder, if I may, without wishing to rankle further. Its not that uncommon here for a member to make an observation and/or ask a question, and for others to make comments and further observations. And sometimes either the initial comment or some follow up one(s) may be incorrect. Sad, I know, but true. Goodness knows I've posted a couple of howlers. But having done so, I know there is always some-one here who will come in and make it right, with maybe a bit of rhetorical flourish thrown in.

And we are all so much the better off for it.

 

[drron]

I'm glad you are certain anat01 but the situation is new on the QF website.
It is not all same day flights.I have a 17 hour layover in DFW to get a good night's sleep yet all are grouped.
Simiarly I am returning BKK-HKG-BNE on CX with another 17 hour layover in HKG.As we age overnight flights get less bearable.
The new SC table says nothing about separate flight numbers but does say things like Europe to Asia on partner airlines.
I wish I could be as certain as you but I distrust QFF.
Simple.So I will wait for a real example being posted before believing your version.
As for contacting QF-I did before our last trip.I was told our MH flight on 3/7 would earn at the old rate.It didn't.So can you see why I distrust QF?

 

[Mr_Orange]

I am not convinced that partnership is as solid as some people think.

Agree 100%; partnership implies all parties bring something to the table and they all benefit. QF-EK "thingie" is the case of one leeching the other one dry, and once there is no more juicy bits left, one will be left for dead...

Agreed again. And the sooner QF bin EK, the better IMO.

 

[serfty]

Which is not new; maybe in MMB world it is but it is not at all new across the world, even CMT has done a similar thing for a while. Maybe not a whole day, but the way flights have been presented has never affected how people know what one flight is at least in terms of the QFF system.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your comment. Does the new MMB "hide" all the details of the flights in transit? For example, given drron's routing, on MMB would it present "Brisbane to New York" without being able to see that it goes via Sydney, Los Angeles and Dallas Fort Worth?

I've just shoved drron's "combined" lot into QF's calculator. It wouldn't let me just type BNE-LGA, so I had to split it as the routing he has given. I put the date of all segments on the same day (which is likely the same thing in real life anyway). It spits out 400 SCs (assuming the first two segments in QF Business and final two in AA First).
...

OK, mea culpa ....

I was perceiving drron's post incorrectly - and assumed the 'journey' philosophy (al la AirNZ) had been provisioned in the calculator. (I am sure having been an AirNZ Gold Elite you would be familiar with that concept .)

I had read the post to presume he had actually put each segment in for each of those 'flights' and the calculator was coming out with 280, not 400. Obviously he had not.

No, I now believe drron is worrying too much - putting that route into the calculator certainly returns 400 SC's, not 280.

 

[serfty]

I am getting more concerned.Have just booked our DONE4 for mid next year.Under the old system it would earn 1360 SCs.Now I thought 950 SCs.But checking on the new MMB it now has grouped our flights.
EG BNE-SYD-LAX-DFW-LGA is shown as flight 1 BNE-NYC.LAX-DFW-LGA are booked with the AA flight numbers so mrsdrron should earn 400 SCs.But if they treat it as 1 flight that will be 280 SCs....

As per above I don't think there is anything to be concerned with, other than the reduced per segment earnings introduced last month.

I suggest putting the entire DONE4 routing into the calculator and check the result.

 

[medhead]

When you have an experienced traveller like drron querying thes things, it's a sure sign of a breakdown in trust of the airline.

One person questioned it and hardly anyone afterwards added anything useful to that, just commented on it. No one has even given an experience of it actually crediting incorrectly as alluded to. And no one even mentioned whether they contacted QF about it and accordingly received a response. All of the sudden we have a Salem Witch Trial where one accusation and a few feeble backups are enough to condemn a woman to the witch "test". In fact, it is not even a test, it is actually instant death without a trial. Brilliant.

Loss of trust does not depend on the specific issue and whether we all question it. I wouldn't question this issue myself, but I isn't a sign that I trust Qantas. The lack of questioning about this issue does not address the point made that such questioning by experienced travellers shows a breakdown in trust. I completely agree there has been a breakdown in trust. I'm in an extremely difficult situation of having 10 Qantas gift vouchers expiring in December, about 15 more flights to book for 2014 but a fundamental unwillingness to support Qantas' actions by actually booking flights.

 

[defurax]

Don't know if this has been posted somewhere else, but according to this article in AusBT, QFF new point stucture on OW and partner airlines should be released end of September...Qantas to reveal frequent flyer points earn for partner airlines next month - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

I love the quote about: "forget the tables, use the calculator..."

And

“We’ve got an amazing in-house IT team" :shock:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And

“We’ve got an amazing in-house IT team" :shock:

When it suits them to make money me thinks.

 

[drron]

Thanks for that link.This part though doesn't fill me with confidence-

Passengers will likely earn more points for flying with partner airlines in business class and even more expensive economy tickets than the cheapest sale fares, with flights also falling into a number of geographical zones – such as Australia’s East Coast to Asia – rather than the overall distance flown.
“We’re looking at the same zonal structure, which is why it’s taken a while” Tully said.

Together with this suggesting plugging into the calculator as it is now might not be the final answer-

To help travellers determine how many points and status credits they’ll earn on any given flight, Qantas will be enhancing its new online calculator with an “interactive route map”, Tully revealed to Australian Business Traveller.
“This will enable you to see points and status credits by routes. You tap on where you’re flying from and to, and it pops up with points and status credits based on the fare type.”

 

[wandering_fred]

...
“We’ve got an amazing in-house IT team" :shock:

In the spirit of amazing I think we are (unfortunately) living in "interesting" times



Happy wandering

Fred

 

[opusman]

“We’ve got an amazing in-house IT team" :shock:

The Qantas English Dictionary redefines so many words already, what's one more?

 

[MarcB]

I'm glad you are certain anat01 but the situation is new on the QF website.
It is not all same day flights.I have a 17 hour layover in DFW to get a good night's sleep yet all are grouped.
Simiarly I am returning BKK-HKG-BNE on CX with another 17 hour layover in HKG.As we age overnight flights get less bearable.
The new SC table says nothing about separate flight numbers but does say things like Europe to Asia on partner airlines.
I wish I could be as certain as you but I distrust QFF.
Simple.So I will wait for a real example being posted before believing your version.
As for contacting QF-I did before our last trip.I was told our MH flight on 3/7 would earn at the old rate.It didn't.So can you see why I distrust QF?

Regarding grouping with next day flights, could this be becuase the definition of "stopover" in relation to an international itinerary is anthing greater than 24 hours?? Per T&Cs:

'Stopover' in relation to:
(a) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel does not take place on the same calendar day; and
(b) for all other Itineraries, including those containing a domestic to international connecting flight, means when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is not scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival;

 

[defurax]

Can't wait to see how complex the zone system for partners will be. Since Russia is in Europe according to the actual QFF tables, this medium-haul flight operated by S7 would most likely be an intra-European flight:shock:

Great Circle Mapper

 

[opusman]

Can't wait to see how complex the zone system for partners will be

You mean simple, surely?

 

[drron]

Regarding grouping with next day flights, could this be becuase the definition of "stopover" in relation to an international itinerary is anthing greater than 24 hours?? Per T&Cs:

'Stopover' in relation to:
(a) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel does not take place on the same calendar day; and
(b) for all other Itineraries, including those containing a domestic to international connecting flight, means when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is not scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival;

Quite aware that the stops in DFW,HKG are transits.There are limits on stopovers.Both however are for a night's sleep.
As I said this grouping of flights is new for the qf website.The comments in the ABT about the new calculator also worry me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Can't wait to see how complex the zone system for partners will be. Since Russia is in Europe according to the actual QFF tables, this medium-haul flight operated by S7 would most likely be an intra-European flight:shock:

Great Circle Mapper

Indeed. But the reverse also holds true for some very short S7/JL flights out of HKG and Japan to Russia, which now count as Asia to Europe (although they are quite expensive)

 

[codash1099]

Don't know if this has been posted somewhere else, but according to this article in AusBT, QFF new point stucture on OW and partner airlines should be released end of September...Qantas to reveal frequent flyer points earn for partner airlines next month - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

I love the quote about: "forget the tables, use the calculator..."

And

“We’ve got an amazing in-house IT team" :shock:

Well the calculator is useless to me for my upcoming flights. I can get from MEL to HKG on QF, but it does not allow me to select AY for the next flight to HEL.

Amazing indeed. On a par with "enhanced".