Heads up about program changes

[defurax]

I'd suggest a new thread be created to have what Awesom Andy is doing.

The "Heads Up" thread has served its purpose, I think.

It's time to move onto how to "use" the new guidelines (or should I mention JohnK's vernacular ?).

Well done, Andy !

I suggest "A Fairer and Simpler way to earn status" thread.

 

[Sumnerned]

Again, you are wrong: had Qantas discontinued mASA, I would have agreed with you. The problem is that they have bundled (botched) so many changes together that it penalises the vast majority (expect for the top 1% who always fly Flexi-business or First). In my case, I never, EVER, attained or retained status due to mASA. And with the changes, I am not sure if I can retain even Gold (ALL my flights are self-funded, and hence in discount economy). Even if I have CBR-SYD-CBR, or CBR-MEL-CBR, on weekly basis, I will not qualify for WP ever again. Qantas has told me my custom is not important to them, as I do not buy tickets in the fare bucket Qantas believes all customers should. I reckon they should rename it from Qantas "frequent" flyer program to Qantas "Elite" flyer. Message received, loud and clear.

You have my sympathies; my own situation is not so different. If I were Qantas, I would be looking hard at offering flex economy deals from time to time, and maybe some kind of bonus SC's for those who do a lot of discount economy flying. The thing about mASA's is that they are/were a fun challenge and that aspect of them needs to be brought into the revised program.

 

[DC3]

I'm still trying to take all of this on board, as far as what my strategy will be.

I fly to the USA once in most years (occasionally to the UK) and have used QFF points (as FASA/JASA) to go to/from those places. Within the USA I have always used AA YUPPs. Travel within AU or to/from NZ is with cash (mine).

So, still unsure about future strategy, if I stay with QF/oneworld.

I suppose it won't be that much different, but using classic award bookings until my points are all burned up (no FASA/JASA now) and still paying cash for the rest.

The end result will most probably be falling to SG (or even PS , although I have LTS for what that's worth) rather than being able to maintain WP.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Is FFing based on number of flights or time spent in the air? 50 x 1 hour flights in Y- versus 2 x 22 hour flights in F. Roughly the same time BIS. The former spent say $6000, the latter around $20,000.

Ah yes.....I've posed that very question a few times here on AFF and I can't ever recall getting a valid answer. But you have missed a crucial third criteria.......quantity. In your scenario above, the obvious answer is the second option. Why run a service for 50 flights when an airline can run a service twice and earn over three times the coin? Problem for the airline of course is which 2 flights will their cashed up couple want to book on? They need the services to offer the service. They can only make the services viable with the "filler" fares. Unfortunately for them, the two F flights need the 50+ filler flights. More to the point, being "F" clients, status means nothing to them as they get everything + some, that the status flyers get so as far as FFer value goes, I'm leaning toward the 50+ flights/year Y flyers as being equally, if not more important.

I'm not sure though, but it suits my flying habits more so I'll run with that one

 

[glaw]

Can anyone (red Roo?) help with a definitive answer to the following (my assumption in brackets)

1) Status credits for flight in business BNE-LAX ( 180)
2) Ditto LAX-JFK (80)
3) Ditto BNE-LAX (180+80=260 as no direct flight)
4) Ditto SYD-JFK if on QF107 (280)
5) Ditto SYD – JFK changing aircraft in LAX (180+80=260)
6) Why can’t we have a points calculator that gives us these answers (have a view but unprintable)

Many Thanks

 

[cmon0005]

Wow almost 100,000 views on this thread... 100,000 views of bad publicity!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I think frequency has as much to do with anything...

My apologies. I'm reading through the pages since this morning and replied before reading this post, which is very similar to the one I just made.

 

[TomVexille]

It appears the monetary values carry some importance.

SQ grants you PPS club membership if you have spent at least $SIN25,000 in the previous 12 months with them.

Judging from the levels of benefits alone, it appears that PPS membership is more highly valued than (say) SQ Silver or even Gold which you could achieve by repeated, frequent Y flights.

So, from your example, it would appear that QF would value the F pax more.

..... what is the thread about again ????

I feel we are just venting our frustrations, maybe anger at what QF had done - in essence, devaluing the QFF currency.

But, I sincerely doubt if anything we say / write here would make any iota of difference.

QF moves on.

So have I.

C'est la vie !

I certainly enjoy the scene while it lasts but I won't sit here crying forever.

That's $SIN25,000 on F or J. Y spend doesn't count.

SQ also allow you to double dip on PPS. You can credit miles to another *A program and your $'s to PPS.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm the first to admit that I am not a frequent flyer. I don't know how some of you do it.

And following the "Life of Brian" analogy mentioned earlier, I yell from the stands "SPLITTER"!

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I am suffering time zone sleep deprivation and decided to read this thread. I will put my structured thoughts on paper before posting as I would hate to be the recipient of abuse (again) because of something said, but... It's not as bad as it looks and I think a few need some chemical assistance prescribed by a GP to help calm themselves down. ;-)Stupid

Please tell me you're not still in Atlanta or is like the Hotel California?

 

[Oneworldplus2]

For those wondering about status matching.

A friend of mine just put in for status match with a few airlines. He's QF WP with LTG.


So far he has got -

• EK Silver
• United Premier Gold (Star Alliance Gold)
• Turkish - Star Gold Alliance Level
• AA - have to do a Platinum Challenge to get status

Waiting to hear back from Cathay.

 

[asg29e]

He gets WP status that he wouldn't on Classic Awards. Am I missing something?

No of course you aren't missing anything. I was merely questioning whether Straitman, in his example, is getting great value for his WP status. How much cash would you pay to QF for them to simply give you the platinum card? What do you really get? (Remember in Straitman's example he has paid nearly $5K above what he could have got the flights for)
1. Lounge access. Can be bought via QP for approx $400. (OK, not J or F lounge, but still free beer.)
2. Priority seating, check in, (slightly) better award availability.
3. Priority for upgrades.
4. ?? not much else

Straitman would have got all this on his JASAs of course. But say he does get to use his magnificent WP benefits on the other 20 or so discount economy flights he does for the rest of the year. In his example that works out to about $250 per flight in benefits that he has to claw back from Qantas in order to break even. Good luck with that.

The more I think about this "simplification" the more I feel free from the shackles of chasing status. There are many other airport lounges other than those of Qantas. From now if I end up in the QF lounge it will be because they have the best value on the route/time I want to fly.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

For those wondering about status matching.

A friend of mine just put in for status match with a few airlines. He's QF WP with LTG.


So far he has got -

• EK Silver
• United Premier Gold (Star Alliance Gold)
• Turkish - Star Gold Alliance Level
• AA - have to do a Platinum Challenge to get status

Waiting to hear back from Cathay.

silly to put all your requests in at once, you are limiting your chances for further status matches later. Does he really need 2 x Star gold memberships right now?

Anyone can do an AA plat challenge but it won't help you get to ex plat anyway - you still need the 100,000 eqp

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

No of course you aren't missing anything. I was merely questioning whether Straitman, in his example, is getting great value for his WP status. How much cash would you pay to QF for them to simply give you the platinum card? What do you really get? (Remember in Straitman's example he has paid nearly $5K above what he could have got the flights for)
1. Lounge access. Can be bought via QP for approx $400. (OK, not J or F lounge, but still free beer.)
2. Priority seating, check in, (slightly) better award availability.
3. Priority for upgrades.
4. ?? not much else

Straitman would have got all this on his JASAs of course. But say he does get to use his magnificent WP benefits on the other 20 or so discount economy flights he does for the rest of the year. In his example that works out to about $250 per flight in benefits that he has to claw back from Qantas in order to break even. Good luck with that.

The more I think about this "simplification" the more I feel free from the shackles of chasing status. There are many other airport lounges other than those of Qantas. From now if I end up in the QF lounge it will be because they have the best value on the route/time I want to fly.

As I said pages ago, book a CLASSIC AWARD, get all the lounge benefits irrespective of Bronze or Platinum, pay less in taxes, still get a Business seat and access to the lounge and really how are you much worse off if you are an infrequent traveller.
Only loss is points, marginal anyway at about 1 cent per point but given the extra contribution required for a MASA compared to a Classic it is not worth it.
Now the blinkers are off I reckon many people will get VALUE from the QFF program even if they are only a lowly Bronze or Silver as I expect to be in 2 years. No more costly WASTED STATUS RUNS for me.
Thanks Alan, you have saved me money but the shareholders may not be as happy in 12 months or so

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

This whole discussion reminds me of something which a business guru once told me.

He said every year, he'd take his most prized 20% of customers, aka the 20% who made up 80% of his sales, and would treat them to something really special. Conversely, he would take his bottom 20% of customers, aka the customers who brought in very little income, but took up 80% of his time, and he would dump them.

Now at first we questioned the wisdom of dumping customers who are still profitable, his response was "yes, but think of how much more profitable you'd be, if you're not wasting time with the bottom 20%". It was something which I started doing in my own business, and not only did it make me happier, it also allowed me time to go after the lucrative contracts, since I wasn't wasting time with the customers who spent 3 weeks deciding if they would part with $150.

Except that the people on this forum who are negatively impacted by this change are parting with substantially more than $150. They are by no means in the 'bottom 20% of customers". They're much more likely to be in the top 20%, both in revenue terms and in profitability. QFFP with almost 10 million members has a very, very, very long tail. The vast majority of people only travel once or twice a year and then often on the cheapest fare available to them. Those people will be impacted most by, say, the reduction in minimum points, but it won't matter to them because they'll only rarely have enough points to cash them in for anything. However, that reduction for discount economy flyers will slow the growth in liabilities on Qantas's books, so the accountants will be happy.

Whilst we are jumping up and down, we are no doubt high maintenance for QF. We are the ones who whilst yes, we do use their product a lot, we are also the ones who look for loopholes in the system, we are the ones who will find the flights which we can get 100% for free

There's no such thing as a 100% free flight, or any other service. There's always a price. Some might argue that I can get "free" food and drink in a Qantas lounge before a flight. I'd respond that I've paid thousands of dollars more than is economically sensible (from a purely utilitarian perspective) in the form of Qantas's premium pricing to enjoy this so-called "free" food and drink. Same with flights purchased with points, even if those points are fewer than some others might be able to take advantage of.

despite the fact that QF would have needed to still pay for expenses in relation to providing that flight.

And the incremental cost of those expenses is almost certainly minor or even miniscule compared to the incremental revenue when taken from a "lifetime customer value" perspective.

We are the ones which will tie up a phone operator in QF's call center for an hour looking for mASA's, or expect QF to spend extra time and dollars in developing the capability for mASA's to be booked online, despite only bringing in a marginal amount of money.

Qantas gave customers the ability to search for and book MASAs online, then took it away. If it now takes operators "an hour" to duplicate this function via a call centre, then that's a decision Qantas has made to remove this function and to then insufficiently train their call centre staff in the correct procedures.

It's just I can also really easily understand how come QF would want to scrap things which are only marginally bringing in the bacon in favour of other things which would be a much higher profit.

Ditto. I'm not convinced though that they're scrapping the right bacon.

It's also possible of course that I'm just a sore loser. I'm 100% convinced that my participation in the QFFP snipe hunt earns Qantas thousands of dollars in profit they would normally not have gotten (nor, most likely, will after this change). But I'm also open to the possibility that I'm in a minority group and that, taken overall across all their member segments, the changes introduced might be to Qantas's financial benefit. We'll see as it all develops I guess.

 

[UP4014]

Presumably SYD-BNE is in Business, BNE-DXB-SFO in Economy but the whole trip is priced at Business Class redemption levels?

Good point, I didn't actually take note but what a crock! There was no choice which came up SYD LAX SFO, just via Dubai.


UA might not be everyone's first choice, but they route you direct saving some 16 hours over QF.

 

[thommo50]

. No more costly WASTED STATUS RUNS for me.
Thanks Alan, you have saved me money but the shareholders may not be as happy in 12 months or so

Excuse my ignorance, if they were costly and wasted why do it in the first place? I must be a simple. I just buy a ticket never really worried about the SC`s, they just kept accumulating each year.

 

[opusman]

Excuse my ignorance, if they were costly and wasted why do it in the first place?

Because of the belief that status is worth having. As myself and others are now realising, it you mostly travel the premium cabins anyway, it's really not worth the premium Qantas demand, particularly after these changes.

I know this is going to put an end to my status chasing, and I'm considering cancelling a couple of forward QFi bookings in favour of the much better value EK ones. I'll get the same lounges and same treatment on board.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Excuse my ignorance, if they were costly and wasted why do it in the first place? I must be a simple. I just buy a ticket never really worried about the SC`s, they just kept accumulating each year.

simple...because of the carrot on the stick to retain Platinum to get the extra tier points for Status etc . Now I have a hard look it is probably for me just a crock and I will still get the same benefits just using points for classic J seats or buying Economy and hoping to upgrade.
Platinum is/was nice but I am not going to slash my wrists when I fall back to Gold next year etc

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Because of the belief that status is worth having. As myself and others are now realising, it you mostly travel the premium cabins anyway, it's really not worth the premium Qantas demand, particularly after these changes.

I know this is going to put an end to my status chasing, and I'm considering cancelling a couple of forward QFi bookings in favour of the much better value EK ones. I'll get the same lounges and same treatment on board.

Don't forget to pen Alan a postcard thanking him for the money you have saved to now spend on something else.
Could begin..."wish you were here" bet lots of others would agree