JQ reduces seat pitch on A320's & locks all seats upright

[ozbeachbabe]

be it more, less crew ratios / seating or otherwise......
am a big believer that things are done for a reason and the smoke screen about seats requiring more maintenance because they recline is that............ a smoke screen.......
and I would have to agree with the JQ engineer...........
my guess is that it IS to cram more seats as the whole LCC ethos is turnover.........
more bums at cheapie prices mean more dollars etc etc etc ......

the new seat pitch would be "bearable" for say a MEL-SYD or MEL-ADL flight but anyhting over that, you are in trouble........ a "birdie" tells me that the new non recline craft will only be deployed on the "short" routes but again, perhaps in the short term but am sure they will creep into without much trouble, into the longer flights of 2+ hr

Interesting you should say that as last night's JQ74 SGN/DRW/SYD scheduled for 2210/1210+1 (actually 0215/1627+1) was operated by VH-VGV. The schedule is 5.05hrs flying SGN/DRW 1.45hrs on the ground in DRW then flying 4.10hrs = total travelling time of 11 hours! :evil:

I mean could they find a longer A320 operated flight if they tried? Obviously whoever said these planes were only going to fly on short sectors was obviously being 'economical with the truth'. Reminds me of when PM Johnny Howard broke a promise and when quizzed by the media replied "it wasn't one of our core election promises". Same same, but different!

I spoke to someone who got off the flight in DRW and without prompting he was telling me how cramped it was and that his knees were squashed up against the netting of the seat pocket in front so much so that he had an imprint on his knees. This was just a person of average height, not tall so a
tall person is going to have a real problem.

Also another ferry flight arrived in DRW today ex SIN for NTL JQ7992 VH-VGR so there is certainly an abundance of these 'enhanced' 180 seat config A320's. I'm sure there's one coming to a city near you:!:

 

[dajop]

I spoke to someone who got off the flight in DRW and without prompting he was telling me how cramped it was and that his knees were squashed up against the netting of the seat pocket in front so much so that he had an imprint on his knees.

Like this? (From my most recent Jetstar Asia flight)

 

[JohnK]

I'm going to be a tad controversial and suggest that is a good thing. I have flown several times on Jetstar Asia with my knees implanted in the seats in front, not exactly comfortable but bearable. As soon as the pax in front reclines it becomes even more uncomfortable.

Any surprise I am agreeing with you on the recline issue.

Perhaps it is time I started a world wide petition campaign. "No recline in economy!"

 

[straitman]

I think it is time for one or two who posted on this thread to eat their words and maybe apologise to ozbeachbabe :!:

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I think it is time for one or two who posted on this thread to eat their words and maybe apologise to ozbeachbabe :!:

HUH?? What for?

so far most of what was in the OP is not true, 1 toilet for 180 paX? seat pitch was the same when i compared old to new config and i flew on both just a few hours apart.... emergency exits have not been proven either way

 

[markis10]

HUH?? What for?

so far most of what was in the OP is not true,

You mean not confirmed yet, given you did not notice the exit row 10 rows away from your seat I doubt you could have noticed the toilets down the back, the aircraft could well have been in a config to demonstrate what it will be like when the 1:50 gets the green light, as such we have been given an insight into the possible future of a LCC :evil:.

I have always found people who are at airports because they are paid to be for most of the week are far more reliable observers of change, for better or for worse!

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I have always found people who are at airports because they are paid to be for most of the week are far more reliable observers of change, for better or for worse!

Good for you markis10.

I would love to know why anyone needs to apologise though?

 

[serfty]

HUH?? What for?

so far most of what was in the OP is not true, 1 toilet for 180 paX? seat pitch was the same when i compared old to new config and i flew on both just a few hours apart.... emergency exits have not been proven either way

As noted ... this may not be the case yet.

Also as noted, if a 1:50 ratio is approved then it would only take a few hours to reduce all rows by 1" and then you have your 188 seat critter.

My info regarding pitch was from a JQ engineer so I had no reason to doubt the bona fides of his story - it's not like it was pub talk & he also said the bit about a 188 seat Y config. The reason for me posting this thread was to give AFFers a heads up so they can make informed choices about the carrier they fly with not to stir the possum like some people think.

Should JQ get the green light for either the 1:50 ratio or some kind of dispensation from CASA to have 8 more seats than the permitted ie 188 vs 180 (1:36 ratio x 5 f/a's) they have already locked the seats upright they have laid the foundations for a quick config change.

The recipe: a couple of engineers, sockets, screwdrivers, ratchets and some elbow grease and bob's your uncle 188 seats and hello 27 inch pitch.

I think the OP was going by a rumour only, there is NO factual information released by Jetstar that I have seen or heard. Perhaps all the 'how dare they' 'i will never fly them again' type posts might wait for an official press release or official word from the airline, or some kind of actual FACT

so jetstar will have less pitch than TIGER and Air Asia but still have the same number of seats as they do in an A320??

Sorry, I don't believe it!

Jetstar may reconfigure the aircraft once the delivery flight is completed.

dazz81,

I backup what markis10 has said and suggest you go and reread post #1 and look at the source of the information. ozbeachbabe is not a rumour monger and has air side access to places that most others do not.

yup i re-read it. I stand by what I said.

I believe they can squeeze more seats in which would explain the massive reduction in pitch so may be what happens when it arrives in NTL.

I believe they can..... it MAY be what happens.... hmmm. These don't seem to be certainties!

disadvantages I foresee

Ok, so ozbeachbabe foresee's this...

I believe exit rows with be 28 inches

Sorry, but i will wait for the facts, not what somebody BELIEVES will be the case

That's nice I will await the facts. I don't believe for 1 minute that emergency exit rows will be 28 inches. I don't see how that would even work with the configuration of the Airbus A320 emergency exit windows/doors.

 

[straitman]

HUH?? What for?

so far most of what was in the OP is not true, 1 toilet for 180 paX? seat pitch was the same when i compared old to new config and i flew on both just a few hours apart.... emergency exits have not been proven either way

dazz81,

You asked for proof and you have the first part. Watch this space as no doubt there is more to come.

Where did you get the '1 toilet for 180 paX' comment from as nobody has suggested this other than yourself :?:

I also fail to see why you are so agitated and aggressive with this.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

dazz81,

You asked for proof and you have the first part. Watch this space as no doubt there is more to come.

Where did you get the '1 toilet for 180 paX' comment from as nobody has suggested this other than yourself :?:

I also fail to see why you are so agitated and aggressive with this.

got it from the OP

Well you demanded an apology, obviously directed at me, and for what? Anyway never mind, am over the discussion anyway, won't contribute to this one again.

 

[straitman]

got it from the OP

I have reread and you are correct. My apologies

Well you demanded an apology, obviously directed at me, and for what?

No it was not.

Anyway never mind, am over the discussion anyway, won't contribute to this one again.

That's a pity but entirely your choice.

You have a PM.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Meanwhile, regarding the $9 seats, I don't want one either. I like my hot dinners and would love to see W seating on QF flights out of BNE.

Count me in as another 'never never again Jetstar' person.

Cheers skip

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Have read through the thread with some interest.

The believe minimum legal seat pitch is 26'. I have seen drawings of this and I think it was from a CAA (UK) source.

However - I'm hard pressed to find any major airlines operating with a seat pitch of less than 29' (Thompson UK is the only one I can find with a pitch of 28').

Airbus A320s are certified for a maximum of 180 passengers. Most european low costs operate in this 180 configuration and even then have a seat pitch of 29'.

So I can't really see the advantage of going below 29' on the A320 when you can't get any more seats in.

The other issue being discussed is the increase in passenger to crew ratio.

The other option for airlines is to have one less staff member than to increase pax numbers. Have I got the numbers right in saying you could operate a fleet of 20% more aircraft with the same number of cabin crew in dropping frm 5 to 4 on the A320 fleet?

 

[Saab34]

Have I got the numbers right in saying you could operate a fleet of 20% more aircraft with the same number of cabin crew in dropping frm 5 to 4 on the A320 fleet?

At the moment its legal to operate with 4 cabin crew on the A320, Tiger do it on all flights where as JQ seems to operate flights with 5 (some have 4 too).

 

[markis10]

At the moment its legal to operate with 4 cabin crew on the A320, Tiger do it on all flights where as JQ seems to operate flights with 5 (some have 4 too).

Tiger cannot operate 4 cabin crew at present as the change has not been approved, unless they are not running full planes, they operate under an Australian AOC requiring 1 per 36 pax with 180 cap A320s.

A full plane with 4 cabin crew would clearly violate CAO 20.16.3, dispensations cannot be granted for operations that dont meet that requirement, in short its not negotiable, until the rule change becomes law for the 1:50 ratio which is the worldwide standard.

 

[Harry G]

perhaps a JQ person can confimr but under the impression JQ fly 4 plus cbain manager who does not do carts - left to 4 crew to do and that if a crew member goes tech at departure, flight is not delayed??

seats........
was led to believe "upright" orthapeadic seating was for the short haul flights?
wrong.............
read a review on JQ - Skytrax......
pax flew BNE - DRW - DPS and seats did not recline..... perhaps some porkies from JQ?

again........any JQ spies??

 

[Saab34]

Tiger cannot operate 4 cabin crew at present as the change has not been approved, unless they are not running full planes, they operate under an Australian AOC requiring 1 per 36 pax with 180 cap A320s.

A full plane with 4 cabin crew would clearly violate CAO 20.16.3, dispensations cannot be granted for operations that dont meet that requirement, in short its not negotiable, until the rule change becomes law for the 1:50 ratio which is the worldwide standard.

Hmm..They must have a exemption then because my flight to Sydney the other week has 170 onboard with 4 crew.

 

[straitman]

Hmm..They must have a exemption then because my flight to Sydney the other week has 170 onboard with 4 crew.

I agree with Harry G in that there was probably 4 plus a CSM. I would be extremely surprised if there was an exemption of any sort.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

perhaps a JQ person can confimr but under the impression JQ fly 4 plus cbain manager who does not do carts - left to 4 crew to do and that if a crew member goes tech at departure, flight is not delayed??

seats........
was led to believe "upright" orthapeadic seating was for the short haul flights?
wrong.............
read a review on JQ - Skytrax......
pax flew BNE - DRW - DPS and seats did not recline..... perhaps some porkies from JQ?

again........any JQ spies??

You don't need to be a JQ spy - any punter could rock up to DRW Airport & see the a/c rego's for themselves & the flight numbers & destinations of these planes.

It is my understanding that if a crew member is sick eg 4 crew instead of the usual 5 an airline would have to cap the flight at 144 pax being 36 pax per each cabin crew member (36x4).

Interesting to note the dictionary interprets the word origin of orthopaedic to mean "straight, upright" however the medical dictionary's version is "marked by or affected with a deformity, order or injury of the skeleton and associated structures".

I do know recently that a CSM who was called in on reserve to operate as a flight attendant DRW/SGN/DRW and on arrival SGN decided she was sick which caused the flight to be delayed in excess of 12 hours which snowballed ie pax due to fly DRW/SYD on the continuation of flight JQ74 at 0715 arrived at the airport to find their plane hadn't yet left SGN.

JQ booked pax on to QF afternoon flights but still involved hanging around airport 6-8 hours for early pm departures. Come the dry season which is almost here flights will be chockers & hotels will be booked out so things will get ugly.

Whoever at JQ said that the A320 aircraft (VH-VG*) where seats do not recline will only be used on shorthaul flights is either lying or being lied to. VGZ (Quicksilver livery) and VGV religiously operate both JQ81/JQ82 BNE/DRW/DPS vv & JQ73/JQ74 SYD/DRW/SGN vv. I've even seen it operate on the wholly domestic SYD/DRW/SYD on the late night flight up & red eye on the return. JQ Management is seriously taking the p!$$ out of the travelling public and playing them for fools if they expect them to put up with that for 11 hours!

Not sure about the ADL/MEL/BNE to DRW & vv wholly domestic red eye flights but my guess would be that as more of the VG*'s roll out, they too will be earmarked for DRW. The only exception is the JQ61 MEL/DRW/SIN vv & JQ57 CNS/DRW/SIN vv which are currently operated by A321's VWW, VWZ etc. Don't know whether seats recline on these planes or whether there are plans to lock these babies upright too.

It should also be borne in mind that ontime departures (like today for example)DRW/MEL on JQ62 or DRW/SYD on JQ74 are rare due to pax having to clear customs in DRW then drop their bags off at checkin. It's not uncommon to hear 'fail to board' calls in the terminal only to see pax running frantically out of customs down to bag drop when everyone else has boarded.

I suspect part of the problem is the fact that pax firstly stop to buy duty free on arrival as evidenced by the JR Duty Free bags in hand which puts them behind the eight ball, then a language barrier as no English spoken by pax which makes it tricky when Customs need to ask questions & also when AQIS open up the interesting looking boxes they have as luggage and need to ask questions about the origins of the contents.

 

[crazydave98]

I agree with Harry G in that there was probably 4 plus a CSM. I would be extremely surprised if there was an exemption of any sort.

We (Virgin Blue) operate with 4 cabin crew (of which one is Cabin Supervisor) in our B737-800s on domestic (VH rego) and international (ZK rego) flights. The former is under a dispensation from CASA as the aircraft was certified by Boeing (i.e. all the emergency egress testing) with 4 crew. I think there is another thread about the CASA Notice of Proposed Rule Making to bring the 1:36 rule into line with the rest of the civilised world at 1:50. It would be entirely legal for AirNZ to operate their A320s in the new trans-Tasman config (171 seats) in domestic Australia.

cheers

CrazyDave98