JQ reduces seat pitch on A320's & locks all seats upright

[maninblack]

I don't get all of this, are JQ telling lies, I have only flown them twice and had exit row seats but this is off their website;

Seating

The seat pitch on Jetstar's Airbus A320 is 30 inches (76 cm). The new Airbus A320s feature all leather slim-line seats with 1 inch (2.5 cm) of extra width providing additional space and comfort. The seat pitch on the Airbus A330 aircraft is 38 inches (96 cm) in StarClass and 31 inches (78 cm) in Economy class.
Up Front Seating

Do you love to sit close to the front of the plane? Choose an Up Front seat and be one of the first people to get off the plane! Includes seats in rows 1 to 5. Row 1 includes seats DEF only.
Want a Window or Aisle Seat?

For just $2 per passenger, in each direction JetSaver Light passengers are able to purchase any available standard seat. JetSaver and JetFlex passengers are able to request any standard seat for no extra charge, subject to availability.
Exit Row Seating Requirements

In order to sit in an Exit Row seat, you must satisfy the following general criteria:

• Be at least 15 years or older
• Be able to understand and carry out instructions
• Not be travelling with someone that requires your assistance in an emergency
• Not have any permanent or temporary impairment (e.g. deaf, hearing impaired, blind, vision impaired, any strength or mobility limitation, intellectual impairment or travelling with a service dog)
• Be able to check outside conditions and react to crew commands
• Be able to reach, open, lift and throw out the 15kg (approx 33lbs) exit door in an emergency
• Acknowledge the exit row briefing given by Cabin Crew once onboard the aircraft
• Be willing to assist in the unlikely event of an emergency
• Not be seated with an infant
• Not require the use of an extension seat belt
• Not be elderly

Extra Leg Room Seats

Jetstar offers JetSaver Light and JetSaver passengers the ability to purchase Extra Leg Room seating in selected exit row seats on bookings (excluding flights from Japan). In order to qualify to sit in these seats, you must meet the exit row seating requirements listed above.
JetFlex passengers are able to request any exit row seat for no extra charge, subject to availability. JetFlex passengers requesting an exit row seat must also meet the requirements above.
How much more Extra Leg Room do I get?

On A320 and A321 aircraft, you will gain an Extra 8 inches (20 cm) of seat pitch and on an A330 aircraft, an Extra 15 inches (38 cm) of seat pitch.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

We (Virgin Blue) operate with 4 cabin crew (of which one is Cabin Supervisor) in our B737-800s on domestic (VH rego) and international (ZK rego) flights. The former is under a dispensation from CASA as the aircraft was certified by Boeing (i.e. all the emergency egress testing) with 4 crew. I think there is another thread about the CASA Notice of Proposed Rule Making to bring the 1:36 rule into line with the rest of the civilised world at 1:50. It would be entirely legal for AirNZ to operate their A320s in the new trans-Tasman config (171 seats) in domestic Australia.

How many pax can your B737-800 take Dave? In any case you're saying that you have a dispensation from CASA to operate a flight in excess of 144 pax with only 4 cabin crew ie in excess of the current 1:36 ratio. This being because Boeing has done egress testing. Can QF not use this same dispensation given that they also fly B737-800's?

Is this the only kind of cabin crew ratio dispensation in Australia that you are aware of regardless of a/c type?

Can Airbus not do egress testing on an A320 & also claim a dispensation from CASA?

I don't get all of this, are JQ telling lies, I have only flown them twice and had exit row seats but this is off their website;

The telling lies bit refers to JQ saying that the A320 aircraft with seats upright will only be used on short sectors such as SYD/AVV etc.

This is clearly not the case as these aircraft operate daily to Asian ports ex SYD & BNE via DRW eg JQ73 SYD/DRW 1305/1715 (actual flight time 4hr40min) 1hr45min transit time DRW then JQ73 DRW/SGN 1900/2125 (actual flight time 4hr55min).

How much more Extra Leg Room do I get?

On A320 and A321 aircraft, you will gain an Extra 8 inches (20 cm) of seat pitch and on an A330 aircraft, an Extra 15 inches (38 cm) of seat pitch.

Currently this is the case however if CASA kowtow to the airlines and increase f/a to pax ratio of 1:50 JQ could squeeze up to 188 seats into the A320 and any leg room will be down to the absolute legal minimum both in standard seats and exit rows.

 

[markis10]

I believe that is 174 pax for the DJ738, interesting to hear the dispensation, that may explain the reports of TT and JQ also, but with different aircraft. I would not be surprised if the rule makers have decided to put in place exemptions leading up to things being legalised for the 1:50 ratio, they were certainly were tight on this until recently, no doubt lobbying by airlines and the GFC have helped.

 

[crazydave98]

How many pax can your B737-800 take Dave? In any case you're saying that you have a dispensation from CASA to operate a flight in excess of 144 pax with only 4 cabin crew ie in excess of the current 1:36 ratio. This being because Boeing has done egress testing. Can QF not use this same dispensation given that they also fly B737-800's?

We have 180 seats. I'm sure QF could obtain same dispensation if they requested. But they also have J class seats so perhaps choose not to for service delivery reasons.

Is this the only kind of cabin crew ratio dispensation in Australia that you are aware of regardless of a/c type? Can Airbus not do egress testing on an A320 & also claim a dispensation from CASA?

Airbus have done this testing. Then up to the individual airlines to obtain dispensation from CASA. I had believed that both TT & JQ already have this. Have only seen 4 crew on JQ A320s on the times I have travelled as a spy.

Currently this is the case however if CASA kowtow to the airlines and increase f/a to pax ratio of 1:50 JQ could squeeze up to 188 seats into the A320 and any leg room will be down to the absolute legal minimum both in standard seats and exit rows.

My understanding is that the A320 exit limit was 180 seats (i.e. TT config). I don't see how TT could get an extra row of 6 in let alone find room for another 2 seats somewhere. I deal with the aircraft manufacturers and have never seen a layout for the A320 with more than 180 seats. Airbus website says 180 is maximum
www.airbus.com/.../media_object_file_2009-All-About-A320Family-Tech-appendices.pdf

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My understanding is that the A320 exit limit was 180 seats (i.e. TT config). I don't see how TT could get an extra row of 6 in let alone find room for another 2 seats somewhere. I deal with the aircraft manufacturers and have never seen a layout for the A320 with more than 180 seats. Airbus website says 180 is maximum
www.airbus.com/.../media_object_file_2009-All-About-A320Family-Tech-appendices.pdf

cheers

CrazyDave98

I made this point in my post quite a while ago.

Maximum certification for the A320 is 180 seats.

Its the same as the silly PR by Ryanair saying they are going to take out lavatories and increase seating on their 737-800s - the aircraft simply isn't certified to handle additional pax in that manner without additional exit doors. Which they aren't going to do.

So my original point remains - everyone is talking about 'reducing pitch' on the new JQ deliveries, but why? What are they going to do with all te empty space which they can't fill with seats because no certification to do so?

Much more likely that the airlines will simply reduce by 1 the number of crew required than putting in the additioanl pax.

 

[phonakins]

Yet again another reason to cry if someone books you Qantas but it's codeshared and operated by Jetstar.

 

[blu]

sorry for the diversion, is there a website that lists all Jet* "inflight" charges (they don't, or it's not easily found).

 

[gilby08]

sorry for the diversion, is there a website that lists all Jet* "inflight" charges (they don't, or it's not easily found).

What charges are you after? Give some examples?
Inflight - so food/drinks?

 

[straitman]

sorry for the diversion, is there a website that lists all Jet* "inflight" charges (they don't, or it's not easily found).

What charges are you after? Give some examples?
Inflight - so food/drinks?

I would read from the members post that they mean 'all' charges.

 

[blu]

That would be anything that is an optional extra - seat choices, additional luggage allowance, meal package, blanket, VOD. These costs only seem to be disclosed in the Jet* booking engine (JQi). There does not seem to be a table of charges to refer to, before booking.

 

[737]

Hi,

QF 738 Can operate with 4 Crew with a pax load of up to 189 with additional passenger load of 10 if they are children or infants only, and of course we dont have that many seats, with full pax load at 168 (which could be increased by infants).

Same as JQ who has a dispensation for 4 crew on their A320, have only ever seen 4 crew on many-a JQ flight on the A320.

QF 738 will only operate with 4 crew if a crew member goes sick in a port where cabin crew are not based and union permission is granted for the flight to operate with only 4 crew. We carry the extra crew member above the dispensation for 4 crew for service reasons, and this is embedded in our EBA.

All other aircraft conform to 1:36 rule, however, operating crew can be reduced to minimum crew if pax load is reduced to 1:36 ratio as well, conforming to same union/EBA conditions above. eg 767-338 operates with 7 crew, but could be reduced to 6 if absolutely needed to, and load was capped at 216 + 11infants/kids

Hope all that makes sense...

Cheers

737

 

[straitman]

Hi,

QF 738 Can operate with 4 Crew with a pax load of up to 189 with additional passenger load of 10 if they are children or infants only, and of course we dont have that many seats, with full pax load at 168 (which could be increased by infants).

Same as JQ who has a dispensation for 4 crew on their A320, have only ever seen 4 crew on many-a JQ flight on the A320.

QF 738 will only operate with 4 crew if a crew member goes sick in a port where cabin crew are not based and union permission is granted for the flight to operate with only 4 crew. We carry the extra crew member above the dispensation for 4 crew for service reasons, and this is embedded in our EBA.

All other aircraft conform to 1:36 rule, however, operating crew can be reduced to minimum crew if pax load is reduced to 1:36 ratio as well, conforming to same union/EBA conditions above. eg 767-338 operates with 7 crew, but could be reduced to 6 if absolutely needed to, and load was capped at 216 + 11infants/kids

Hope all that makes sense...

Cheers

737

This makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks for the information.

 

[codash1099]

It appears JQ aren't the only ones at it, but Spirit manage a marketing twist:

Market opportunity? Spirit Airlines debuts pre-reclined seats | Tnooz

 

[anat0l]

It appears JQ aren't the only ones at it, but Spirit manage a marketing twist:

Market opportunity? Spirit Airlines debuts pre-reclined seats | Tnooz

Oh yes. The same freaks who insist on charging for carry-on. :evil:

 

[straitman]

Oh yes. The same freaks who insist on charging for carry-on. :evil:

They are at it again. Are they related to Ryanair :?:

 

[Ascent]

Jetstar has been operating with the dispensation of 1:50 for approx two years now. They only recently applied and were successful in having the dispensation applied to the A321. The 321 goes out with five crew now. The CSM operates the two front doors in an emergency - passengers in row one get a long brief about getting up and blocking the aisle so the CSM can open two doors.

Not sure how it slipped through but has been happening for a long time.

QF are unable to take advantage as crewing levels are actually written into their EBA.

 

[Harry G]

the banter is great but ......... the seat pitch has been changed, seats are bolted upright and their claim that they are not like Tiger but a Low Fare Airline and they should not be compared is rather amusing.........
jamming them in.......planes "appearing" to be always running late of flights cancelled??, and more recently, being flicked out of the QF gates to the Qantaslink end so they can use stairs??????? and we cannot compare??
I am starting to think that although Tiger has a perhaps "tarnished" reputation, JQ is starting to hurt, especially now with Avalon......... any insiders?? to offer comment.....

if Jthere is a legal way JQ will amend the crew numbers - QF has a strong union and an even stronger EBA........JQ has a lot of kids and appears half their staff on one eba and others on another....that does not make for strength.....but lets be realistic.......want a plane to take of on time.....ask Tiger how many times a plane has not gone anywhere because a crew memebr got tanked the night before or forgot to show up! causing a plane and its passengers to sit!!!
JQ reputation is IMHO starting to go down the toilet and QF is not far behind so again, IMHO, changes need to be made and quickly as Tiger will IMHO belt JQ and DJ will laugh all the way to the bank when it becomes the No1 Aust carrier!!!

 

[yohy?!]

the banter is great but ......... the seat pitch has been changed, seats are bolted upright and their claim that they are not like Tiger but a Low Fare Airline and they should not be compared is rather amusing.........
jamming them in.......planes "appearing" to be always running late of flights cancelled??, and more recently, being flicked out of the QF gates to the Qantaslink end so they can use stairs??????? and we cannot compare??
I am starting to think that although Tiger has a perhaps "tarnished" reputation, JQ is starting to hurt, especially now with Avalon......... any insiders?? to offer comment.....

if Jthere is a legal way JQ will amend the crew numbers - QF has a strong union and an even stronger EBA........JQ has a lot of kids and appears half their staff on one eba and others on another....that does not make for strength.....but lets be realistic.......want a plane to take of on time.....ask Tiger how many times a plane has not gone anywhere because a crew memebr got tanked the night before or forgot to show up! causing a plane and its passengers to sit!!!
JQ reputation is IMHO starting to go down the toilet and QF is not far behind so again, IMHO, changes need to be made and quickly as Tiger will IMHO belt JQ and DJ will laugh all the way to the bank when it becomes the No1 Aust carrier!!!

Agreed, I hadn't flown Jetstar for about 4 years until 2 weeks ago...it is very similar to Tiger now, the smaller pitch was very noticeable and made the short trip rather claustrophobic. I'll be continuing to stick to DJ where possible.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

the banter is great but ......... the seat pitch has been changed,

Has the seat pitch been changed? The 'banter' is trying to establish that.

Website still says 30 inches for A320s (although note it is strangely quiet on the pitch for the A321!!).

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Has the seat pitch been changed? The 'banter' is trying to establish that.

Website still says 30 inches for A320s (although note it is strangely quiet on the pitch for the A321!!).

I dont think it has when I flew on both within hours of eachother in the same row a couple of weeks back.