MH 777 missing - MH370 media statement

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Any airline could lose a plane for days, no matter the expertise or care they may show to try and prevent such an incident.There are plenty of areas in the world that are wilderness, all it takes is a critical unforeseen failure at the same time as a satellite outage or comms failure. All accidents that I have been involved with have more than one contributing factor, most going unnoticed by those who should know better.
 
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markis10 said:
Any airline could lose a plane for days, no matter the expertise or care they may show to try and prevent such an incident.There are plenty of areas in the world that are wilderness, all it takes is a critical unforeseen failure at the same time as a satellite outage or comms failure. All accidents that I have been involved with have more than one contributing factor, most going unnoticed by those who should no better.
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Guess I could 'Ask the Pilot' (- somebody probably has :) ) but since QF have been raised ... can you tell us if QF's A380s to DXB,LHR and LAX at cruise altitude are all 'normally' within:

* Range of being able to broadcast ECAMS & other data back to their base (as we saw on the 4 Corners story of QF32 ... which of course was very much within data range)

* Range of a sat phone 'if all else fails' (I believe they carry sat phones on board?)

* Range of some authority's radar screen.

No clever angles suggested here - just a question "Does QF know where it's A380s are at any one time, in cruise?"

ps avoidance of industry jargon & acronyms would be appreciated ;)
 
RooFlyer said:
Guess I could 'Ask the Pilot' (- somebody probably has :) ) but since QF have been raised ... can you tell us if QF's A380s to DXB,LHR and LAX at cruise altitude are all 'normally' within:

* Range of being able to broadcast ECAMS & other data back to their base (as we saw on the 4 Corners story of QF32 ... which of course was very much within data range)

* Range of a sat phone 'if all else fails' (I believe they carry sat phones on board?)

* Range of some authority's radar screen.

No clever angles suggested here - just a question "Does QF know where it's A380s are at any one time, in cruise?"

ps avoidance of industry jargon & acronyms would be appreciated ;)
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Data from a plane goes via ACARS, whch is VHF and/or sat. Range of a Satphone is a nonsensical question, its a case of being in the footprint of the satellite as far as its coverage goes. Satellite coverage is not 100% of the earth if its geo stationary, simply because there are places where it doest not work well or make sense, generally outside + or - 70 degree longitude. Iridium orbiting sats claim to offer coverage everywhere and in fact ACARS can use these, there is also a HF radio backup now as well.

In terms of radar coverage, what sort of radar, Primary radar is generally 60-100nm depending on it being terminal surveillance radar (the antennas you see near an airport spinning fast) or route surveillance radar (the antennas spinning slower). The real fast small spinning antenna you may notice is usually covering the airport ground movements, bit like a ships radar in looks. Secondary Surveillance Radar (the bar often sitting on top of the primary antenna) can go to 200nm.

Qantas clearly has streaming ACARs so the plane is talking to them, along with ADSB broadcasts of position (the "radar" most traffic trackers use - its just a beacon from the plane telling all who listen who what why how high and when )

Regardless, if power was lost to the comms, QF would only have the last position just like MH370, in that respect there is no difference to what we are seeing now. Any aircraft losing comms would be only visible optically or by primary radar, as an ATC when you have that happen you cannot assume track or altitude, so you clear a big bubble of air vertically and horizontally around them and hope they stick to flight plan but plan and keep things clear if they dont.
 
markis10 said:
Data from a plane goes via ACARS, whch is VHF and/or sat. Range of a Satphone is a nonsensical question, its a case of being in the footprint of the satellite as far as its coverage goes. Satellite coverage is not 100% of the earth if its geo stationary, simply because there are places where it doest not work well or make sense, generally outside + or - 70 degree longitude. Iridium orbiting sats claim to offer coverage everywhere and in fact ACARS can use these, there is also a HF radio backup now as well.

In terms of radar coverage, what sort of radar, Primary radar is generally 60-100nm depending on it being terminal surveillance radar (the antennas you see near an airport spinning fast) or route surveillance radar (the antennas spinning slower). The real fast small spinning antenna you may notice is usually covering the airport ground movements, bit like a ships radar in looks. Secondary Surveillance Radar (the bar often sitting on top of the primary antenna) can go to 200nm.

Qantas clearly has streaming ACARs so the plane is talking to them, along with ADSB broadcasts of position (the "radar" most traffic trackers use - its just a beacon from the plane telling all who listen who what why how high and when )

Regardless, if power was lost to the comms, QF would only have the last position just like MH370, in that respect there is no difference to what we are seeing now. Any aircraft losing comms would be only visible optically or by primary radar, as an ATC when you have that happen you cannot assume track or altitude, so you clear a big bubble of air vertically and horizontally around them and hope they stick to flight plan but plan and keep things clear if they dont.
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Thanks .. helpful. The query was specifically about QF's A380s to LHR and LAX, so I "suppose" they are always within a sat footprint, maybe with a hole over western Asia / the Stans type of area (I can google that, no doubt).

I thought (for no particular reason) that the crew also carried a hand held sat phone 'if all else fails' - so this would be independent of plane comms.

Also, I assume that military satellites would routinely track or listen to civilian aircraft. If you know, (and I don't think it would be a 'state secret') how much more helpful would such be in 'finding' any 'missing' aircraft? I guess the main issue might be is that said military may not want to divulge its capabilities!
 
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RooFlyer said:
Thanks .. helpful. The query was specifically about QF's A380s to LHR and LAX, so I "suppose" they are always within a sat footprint, maybe with a hole over western Asia / the Stans type of area (I can google that, no doubt).

I thought (for no particular reason) that the crew also carried a hand held sat phone 'if all else fails' - so this would be independent of plane comms.

Also, I assume that military satellites would routinely track or listen to civilian aircraft. If you know, (and I don't think it would be a 'state secret') how much more helpful would such be in 'finding' any 'missing' aircraft? I guess the main issue might be is that said military may not want to divulge its capabilities!
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I dont know what Qantas use re service provider via Acars and its capabilities, as for carrying a sat phone hand held, I would imagine that would be hardly optimal.

I doubt military satellite track civil planes, they have ground radar in most cases to do that, augmented by airborne and seaborne systems. It would be a waste of money.
 
In no way defending the Malaysians, I doubt any country outside of the EU, ANZ and North America would be handling the situation any better. At least officials were prepared to unfortunately put their uncoordinated two cents worth in attempting to determine what happened in this increasingly bizarre tragedy.
 
DaveB said:
At least officials were prepared to unfortunately put their uncoordinated two cents worth in attempting to determine what happened in this increasingly bizarre tragedy.
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Misinformation, or partial release of information, could well be more damaging than saying "I don't know" ...of course they would never do that as it is a loss of 'face' to admit that they don't know where the plane is.

If the authorities immediately gave the full story (as it appears now), that last primary radar contact was over the Gulf of Thailand 40 minutes into the flight, and that there was a suspected secondary radar echo 200nm NW of Penang about 2 hours into the flight, with some indication, albeit unconfirmed, that the plane had turned around, and that they are therefore searching both areas until a more precise location is confirmed - there would be much more confidence in the search effort's organisation.

Alas, the news has come out in dribs and drabs, reported, retracted then reported again. This may not reflect what is happening on the ground, but the authorities dealings with the international press leaves much to be desired.
 
The Malaysian gov is getting a hard time but isn't there a large multi-national effort going on? In addition to Australia's 2 planes, what else has been sent? I have seen reports about US and Chinese satellite images but surely they have capabilities in this area too?
 
Auckland10 said:
Just seen this come through...not sure of its authenticity....

Link to the news story as well:

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight live : Chinese satellite finds 'suspected crash area' of missing Malaysia Airlines flight - Mirror Online


Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight: Has IT manager found missing plane after surfing satellite images on the internet? - Mirror Online

View attachment 26111
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Pity about the big red circle that makes it hard to see any details....looks like a large chunk of the fuselage floating. The other parts are reportedly quite large too. Would seem like a slow impact rather than a fast one if that were the case.
 
drron said:
That image was from tomnod and has been refuted.
however a journalist seems to have found that the New Zealander does exist and is on an oil rig-
https://twitter.com/BobWoodruff/status/443726108513411072
his sighting does seem to fit the new Chinese satellite findings.however those images were from Sunday-why now only released?

But from the Iranians comes the best scenario of all -
Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines
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and here too:

Malaysian Airlines Plane Disappearance Conspiracy Theories Are All Over The Internet
 
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drron said:
That image was from tomnod and has been refuted.
however a journalist seems to have found that the New Zealander does exist and is on an oil rig-
https://twitter.com/BobWoodruff/status/443726108513411072
his sighting does seem to fit the new Chinese satellite findings.however those images were from Sunday-why now only released?

But from the Iranians comes the best scenario of all -
Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines
Click to expand...

I would not be surprised if it takes a long time to scan all the photos.
 
From Oil rig worker says he saw Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 burst into flames | News.com.au
IN what could be the last chilling sighting of missing Flight MH370, an oil rig worker believes he spotted the Malaysia Airlines jetliner burst into flames on Saturday morning.

Chilling ... The letter written by Mike Mckay. Source: AAP
New Zealander Mike McKay, who is working on a rig operating in the Gulf of Thailand, was so certain he saw the ill-fated flight on fire that he emailed his employers, urging them to pass the information onto authorities.

"Gentlemen. I believe I saw the Malaysian Airlines flight come down. The timing is right," he wrote.
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More speculation? (Pulished23 minutes ago March 13, 2014 11:12AM)
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...hinese-satellite/story-fnizu68q-1226853195656
A CHINESE satellite looking into the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has "observed a suspected crash area at sea", in what experts say is the first solid lead in the search for the missing plane. Three satellite images, published by China's State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence (SASTIND), appear to show floating wreckage fragments in the South China Sea on Sunday - one day after the jet carrying 239 people disappeared.
Click to expand...
 
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