MH 777 missing - MH370 media statement

[anat0l]

or going to Malaysia for a holiday expecting that if something happened, it will be actioned.

You didn't really need this incident to instil that kind of lack of confidence into you - this has been the case for decades.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Rolls Royce receive the data, MH have already said they dont get ACARS bursts from aircraft as the service was not one they subscribed to. I am not sure why you think any geographical update would result, although I am sure the RCC would have loved to know the engines were working for four hours a while ago.

Well Rolls Royce will know where the data came from then even if MH doesn't.

 

[amaroo]

Interesting article Confusion over missing plane has shamed Malaysia: experts


''The fact that they had to send junior staff to Beijing because no one in the senior ranks could speak Chinese says a lot,'' she said. ''Twenty-three per cent of the population is Chinese.''

.......

The airline - arguably the cheapest full service airline in the world - has recently achieved a massive surge in passenger numbers, up almost 30 per cent in the past year. It is the eighth most popular airline for Australians travelling overseas, with many stopping over in Kuala Lumpur en route to other destinations in Asia and Europe. Australia is its second biggest market after Malaysia

But the chase for market share has seen profits slump, with Malaysia Airlines recording a 171 per cent deterioration in earnings over the past year, recording a loss of 1.17 billion Malaysian ringgit ($577 million) in 2013.

 

[markis10]

Well Rolls Royce will know where the data came from then even if MH doesn't.

They know it came from MH370, not where MH370 was when it was transmitted.

 

[SeatBackForward]

They know it came from MH370, not where MH370 was when it was transmitted.

What about the facility on the ground? is it just one single facility that captures all data from around the globe?

 

[markis10]

What about the facility on the ground? is it just one single facility that captures all data from around the globe?

There are two providers who run the system, and as far as facilities go on the ground there are thousands, just like the internet, capturing data and forwarding it as addressed. Its likely the 200 character messages were transported by satellite rather than a ground station, so no geo local possible. RRs health monitoring centre in Derby in the UK probably didnt even notice the data coming in, and its only later someone has asked them to look for the stream in their logs.

 

[anat0l]

Interesting article ...

''The fact that they had to send junior staff to Beijing because no one in the senior ranks could speak Chinese says a lot,'' she said. ''Twenty-three per cent of the population is Chinese.''

That's drawing a bit of a long bow. The senior ranks would definitely be expected to speak Malay and English; not so Chinese I would think.

That said, why didn't they send at least one senior staff member with an interpreter to assist? Or, what about the MH station manager in Beijing - surely that person would be capable of speaking Chinese?

 

[SeatBackForward]

There are two providers who run the system, and as far as facilities go on the ground there are thousands, just like the internet, capturing data and forwarding it as addressed. Its likely the 200 character messages were transported by satellite rather than a ground station, so no geo local possible. RRs health monitoring centre in Derby in the UK probably didnt even notice the data coming in, and its only later someone has asked them to look for the stream in their logs.

Well there's a possible chain of communication that may assist in narrowing down the area, even without Geo codes.

 

[eastwest101]

Well Rolls Royce will know where the data came from then even if MH doesn't.

Correct me if I am wrong, but all that Rolls Royce could confirm was that the data came from the B777 aircraft in question via a satellite to the intended ground data collection service at the Rolls Royce offices. i.e. the engine data has no helpful geographic information in it at all, except that the engines were running and all the relevant technical data like temps, rpm etc

 

[DrA]

I suspect there's a few things MH doesn't subscribe to .........

Media training?

 

[markis10]

Well there's a possible chain of communication that may assist in narrowing down the area, even without Geo codes.

Not sure how temperature, oil levels, RPM etc would help provide location?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Not sure how temperature, oil levels, RPM etc would help provide location?

No, not the data itself, but the FLOW of the data. Bit like how a mobile phone call goes through unique tower ID's.

 

[eastwest101]

Well there's a possible chain of communication that may assist in narrowing down the area, even without Geo codes.

Have a look at the "footprint" or reception area of a single, Iridium satellite, its such a large area that even knowing which satellite the RR engine data came via/through is pretty much useless to them from a search and rescue point of view.

If true - its very interesting that the engines were running for 4-5 hours I think.

 

[JessicaTam]

Not sure how temperature, oil levels, RPM etc would help provide location?

I think the point being made was that if the receiving station/satellite could be identified that could help narrow down the location. As the plane was moving a change in receiver could indicate a (very rough) direction of travel. West versus east for example.

 

[markis10]

No, not the data itself, but the FLOW of the data. Bit like how a mobile phone call goes through unique tower ID's.

Your thinking in mobile terms, the communications provider would be able to look at logs to see what Satellite was used, but as pointed out their footprint is in the 1000s of KMs versus the tens of km's of a cell site. In fact knowing the engine was running for four hours would be more helpful than what satellite got the message.

 

[medhead]

There are two providers who run the system, and as far as facilities go on the ground there are thousands, just like the internet, capturing data and forwarding it as addressed. Its likely the 200 character messages were transported by satellite rather than a ground station, so no geo local possible. RRs health monitoring centre in Derby in the UK probably didnt even notice the data coming in, and its only later someone has asked them to look for the stream in their logs.

Even without geotagging, knowing the receiving station will narrow things down a bit. Certainly much more than drawing a 4 hour radius circle on a map. Unless you're saying a receiving station 4 hours to the west of the last known position could pick up the signal 4 hours in any other direction from the last known position.

 

[markis10]

I think the point being made was that if the receiving station/satellite could be identified that could help narrow down the location. As the plane was moving a change in receiver could indicate a (very rough) direction of travel. West versus east for example.

Not possible, its likely if it was geostationary it was the same satellite all the time, and it would not log signal strength or RSS on every message.

 

[harvyk]

No, not the data itself, but the FLOW of the data. Bit like how a mobile phone call goes through unique tower ID's.

They may be able to work out the path the data took based on any routing packets included in that data, assuming that the information was not disposed of (not uncommon with datacoms unless actively troubleshooting) on arrival at RR.

Of course, assuming that the header data is still available, at most all it would tell you is that the data was routed via Satellite A to ground tower 1 to router ABC and finally to Server XYZ. Much like finding out that you are making a call via a certain tower just means that you're within a 10km (for example) radius of that tower, Satellite A might cover an area the size of AU.

For the data to actually be accurately positioned, it would need Geo-tag data embedded in the data which was sent, and from the sounds of it, RR did not collect nav data (why would they care).

 

[markis10]

Even without geotagging, knowing the receiving station will narrow things down a bit. Certainly much more than drawing a 4 hour radius circle on a map. Unless you're saying a receiving station 4 hours to the west of the last known position could pick up the signal 4 hours in any other direction from the last known position.

If you have enough data you could plot the foot print of each receipt and get an approximate area by using the overlap footprints, I suspect doing a four hour range plot on the last known position would result in a smaller radius, but still a lot of area. We are talking possibly 6-6 data plots though at most.

Thats assuming it was Iridium in use, if its geostationary, its possible all the data came from the same Sat, providing not much info at all.

Immarsat Geostationary footprints

 

[Anna]

Colour me cynical, but I am not going to believe a report that says stuff like -

"[unnamed] U.S. investigators suspect ...

[More unnamed] Aviation investigators and national security officials believe ...

... Rolls-Royce couldn't immediately be reached for comment."

Sounds to me too much like "we heard some stuff from some people totally unqualified to comment and now we're rushing to publish it before RR can formally deny it".

And as to the remark "MH have already said they dont get ACARS bursts from aircraft as the service was not one they subscribed to" - if MH had subscribed to it, wouldn't they know where their aircraft is? If not, why not? (and in plain English please, not in jargon).