Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pushka]

Is it just me?
Everyone here has an opinion on Abbott. In fact the naysayers are convinced they know him well. On that basis what is the problem?
You seem to know what you will get.
With Rudd and Gillard that wasn't / isn't the case
Rudd is reviled by his colleagues. And yet presents an acceptable easy and quite loveable face to the electorate ( and apparently NOT at all liked by our largest trading partner China) Can't be trusted with our money and will say or do anything for a photo op
Gillard is held in disdain and mistrust by the electorate and loved by her colleagues. can't take a trick, lies about her plans, ( yes all politicians lie, but she has taken it to a new level) will do deals with those she ideologically at odds with.

Not just you. The naysayers attack Abbott personally. They seem to know his personality, sexual behaviour, criminal history - the works. Even the colour of his jocks. Nothing is ever said about the good things he does, even when these are pointed out. He is attacked personally here.

On the other hand, those likely to be Coalition voters have stuck to the argument and not the person. There has been no personal attack on Gillard the way Abbott has been attacked.

So i would like to know why pretty disgusting things have been said about Abott and Julia is somehow sacred.

As for the Youtube above, really? He made a mistake. He apologised for that with no excuses. (Unlike Eddie Everywhere). Those subtitles are disgusting. Gutter politics. To be expected I guess.

And as far as not providing expensive medication to relieve medical conditions, do not think that Gillard is clear in that area. There are many medications known to provide treatment for such conditions but the Gillard Govt is withholding PBS access. There was just such a case this week in Adelaide where a Grandfather is paying $400,000 for medications for his grandaughter with Cystic Fibrosis. She can now breathe, study and live again but only because her Grandfather is wealthy.

 

[Pukka]

To say you know what you are getting with Abbott is a furphy.

Yes we know what we are getting with Abbott... Just have a look at previous behavior. Insulating a dying Man, bully boy behavior. Destruction of public property.
Behaviour | Facts about Tony Abbott

[video=youtube_share;QxwkbkXGPdM]http://youtu.be/QxwkbkXGPdM[/video]

Any muppet can superimpose sarcastic subtitles on a video. The really telling videos are the ones where there are no subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMVc0IbtyAQ

There's lots more

 

[medhead]

Not just you. The naysayers attack Abbott personally. They seem to know his personality, sexual behaviour, criminal history - the works. Even the colour of his jocks. Nothing is ever said about the good things he does, even when these are pointed out. He is attacked personally here.

On the other hand, those likely to be Coalition voters have stuck to the argument and not the person. There has been no personal attack on Gillard the way Abbott has been attacked.

So i would like to know why pretty disgusting things have been said about Abott and Julia is somehow sacred.

As for the Youtube above, really? He made a mistake. He apologised for that with no excuses. (Unlike Eddie Everywhere). Those subtitles are disgusting. Gutter politics. To be expected I guess.

And as far as not providing expensive medication to relieve medical conditions, do not think that Gillard is clear in that area. There are many medications known to provide treatment for such conditions but the Gillard Govt is withholding PBS access. There was just such a case this week in Adelaide where a Grandfather is paying $400,000 for medications for his grandaughter with Cystic Fibrosis. She can now breathe, study and live again but only because her Grandfather is wealthy.

Oh that's laughable come from you and all your personal attacks on Gillard. Have you ever stopped to think that the flaws in Abbott's character are mentioned precisely because of your, and others, personal attacks on Gillard. You claim to stick to the point but your only point is a personal attack on Gillard as a liar. You then accuse others of doing this type of rubbish when they point out that Abbott is also a liar.

Here is a consistent question that you continue to fail to answer. Did you change your vote because of what Gillard said? Just answer the question instead of resorting to gutter accusations. Yes or no is all it will take. Did you change your vote?

Instead of attacking people who are pointing out hypocrisy why don't you try listing these alleged good things Abbott has done.

As for your comments on the PBS, how about getting a clue about how the PBS works? The government is advised by an expert group about adding drugs to the PBS. You love to go and attack the government of making autocratic, uninformed decisions. But here you are attacking them for following the process and the advice of the expert panel. Basically you demand that they make an uninformed, autocratic decision without consultation. Sorry but that is the bottom of gutter politics. Attacking the PM and ignoring the facts.

 

[whatmeworry]

Abbott drunk on the job and missing key budget votes whilst sleeping in his office?

TONY Abbott missed the key economic vote of the new Parliament - the $42 billion fiscal stimulus package - because he fell asleep after a night of drinking witnessed by MPs from both sides of Parliament.

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au

 

[Pushka]

Oh that's laughable come from you and all your personal attacks on Gillard. Have you ever stopped to think that the flaws in Abbott's character are mentioned precisely because of your, and others, personal attacks on Gillard. You claim to stick to the point but your only point is a personal attack on Gillard as a liar. You then accuse others of doing this type of rubbish when they point out that Abbott is also a liar.

Here is a consistent question that you continue to fail to answer. Did you change your vote because of what Gillard said? Just answer the question instead of resorting to gutter accusations. Yes or no is all it will take. Did you change your vote?

Instead of attacking people who are pointing out hypocrisy why don't you try listing these alleged good things Abbott has done.

Have you not been reading this thread? not alleged, by the way, but documented.

• Abbott is a volunteer member of the NSW Rural Fire Serviceas a member of the Davidson Rural Fire Brigade. His service in January this year was branded as a stunt by one of Gillard's Ministers. Nice work.
  
• Howard appointed Abbott to replace Kay Patterson as Minister for Health in 2003, during a period of contentious Medicare reform and a crisis in Medical Indemnity Insurance, in which the price of insurance was forcing doctors out of practice.The Australian Medical Association was threatening to pull out all Australian doctors. Abbott worked with the states to address the crisis and keep the system running.
  
• Among the health care initiatives instigated by Abbott was the Nurse Family Partnership, a long term scheme aimed at improving conditions for indigenous youth by improving mother-child relationships. The scheme was successful in reducing child abuse and improving school retention rates.
• Abbott has participated in several events for charity. In April 2007 he launched the tenth annual Pollie Pedal, a charitable event which aimed to raise money for breast cancer research.[SUP][170][/SUP]Federal Territories Minister Jim Lloyd said that the event was Abbott's "brainchild".[SUP][171][/SUP]
• As Opposition spokesman on Indigenous Affairs, Abbott spent weeks teaching in a remote Aboriginal settlements in Cape York in 2008 and 2009, organised through prominent indigenous leaderNoel Pearson. He taught remedial reading to Aboriginal children; worked with an income management group, helping families manage their welfare payments; and visited children who had not been attending school—with a goal 'to familiarise himself with indigenous issues
• Abbott opposed WorkChoices

As for your comments on the PBS, how about getting a clue about how the PBS works? The government is advised by an expert group about adding drugs to the PBS. You love to go and attack the government of making autocratic, uninformed decisions. But here you are attacking them for following the process and the advice of the expert panel. Basically you demand that they make an uninformed, autocratic decision without consultation. Sorry but that is the bottom of gutter politics. Attacking the PM and ignoring the facts.

Thanks for the lecture but I do understand the PBS. And as for hypocrisy, what a laugh. That youtube was in part attack on Abbott for not allowing the medication he needed to be available. Maybe you should save your lectures for your own "side". They really need it. Attacking the PM and ignoring the facts? So it's OK for that youtube to attack Abbott (as health minister) and ignore the facts (that you just spouted)?

The worse thing that I have called Gillard on this thread is a liar. I maintain she is. You have rationalised to yourself by saying she had to do that to form a minority government. Whoopy do for you. Is Abbott a liar? So what. Has he lied about an election promise?

Its actually pretty stupid to say that the reason why Abbott has been attacked so personally in this thread is because of what I have posted on this thread. Good grief. Are you for real?

Did I change my vote? No. Her issue with the Carbon Tax was just one of many reasons why I wouldn't be voting Labor in that election. The Labor candidate in our electorate did not bother to actually lobby. We did not receive one document in our letter box. They did not even have a Labor rep in our polling booth, just a table with the documents. Maybe they were on a lunch break.

And i have done a fairly quick recap of my posts and would really to like see where I have insulted Gillard as a person, (with the exception of the liar comment) in the same way as Abbott has been dragged through the mud here. I am happy to recant if you can quote me my personal comments.

Abbott drunk on the job and missing key budget votes whilst sleeping in his office?

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au

You seem to have forgotten to state this:

<He had helped with bushfire recovery efforts on the Central Coast four nights earlier and had not caught up on sleep.>

 

[DaveB]

This thread is rather amusing how hot under the collar people can get over politicians.
When you want your GDP growth rate to range 2.5-4% public confidence in the government is pretty much everything.
Tony Abbott is actually our local member and my wife and I some years back enjoyed his company for a round of golf at a fund raising day held by our daughters public school. Tony had rarely played the game using borrowed clubs so he could get involved.

 

[JohnK]

Great story in the Australian today.

"Gillard's leadership on the line"

LABOR MP's reeling from a string of devastating polls that predict electoral ruin for the party expect Julia Gillard to be finished as Prime Minister within 2 weeks.

I do not follow this thread but blind Freddy knows if this had happened earlier Labor would still have a chance.

 

[Pushka]

I am taking a bex and going to lie down.

 

[Hvr]

Great story in the Australian today.

"Gillard's leadership on the line"

Originally Posted by The Australian LABOR MP's reeling from a string of devastating polls that predict electoral ruin for the party expect Julia Gillard to be finished as Prime Minister within 2 weeks.

I do not follow this thread but blind Freddy knows if this had happened earlier Labor would still have a chance.

The Australian is reporting what was said on the ABC yesterday.

Be interesting to see if it happens.

The sad part of all the attention on Labor is that it means Tony Abbott isn't being scrutinised as he should be given the Liberal party will, barring an incredible event, win government in September.

 

[Pushka]

Windsor has said he will withdraw his deal if Gillard goes. That surprises me. Just waiting for the bex to kick in.....

 

[Hvr]

Windsor has said he will withdraw his deal if Gillard goes. That surprises me. Just waiting for the bex to kick in.....

Why does it surprise you? The deal with the independents was always with Julia Gillard and once she goes, so does the deal.

 

[Pushka]

Why does it surprise you? The deal with the independents was always with Julia Gillard and once she goes, so does the deal.

I thought that when the crunch came they may still side with Labor. It will force an election most likely and again, their seats (well, not Katter's) would be at risk. I'd be impressed with Windsor (more than I have been) if he kept to his agreement, and Gillard hasn't exactly fulfilled her side of deal.

 

[drron]

Windsor has always said his agreement was with JG.He previously has said his support would be withdrawn if krudd staged a comeback.
I have believed Windsor would win his seat-polls have shown that.But he must be a little concerned with the result of the State New England by election.Mainly that the ALP polled less than 10% and the Greens were well down-he needs those preferences to win.

Kevin is up to all his old tricks.Another article was about his trip to Geelong which was billed as a trip to the most marginal electorate Corangamite.In fact he visited Corio one of the ALP's safest electorate.The shopping centre he visited was in the area of the ALP's best booth in corio.For good measure a busload of supporters arrived an hour before KR.More staged than is usual for these things.
Even if Krudd did lead the ALP to a surprise win he would be gone within 3 months.He would find out the hard way how well he is liked in caucus.

 

[HarryB]

Windsor has said he will withdraw his deal if Gillard goes. That surprises me. Just waiting for the bex to kick in.....

It's a hollow threat anyway as his support is not required as all policies have passed through the House of Reps already. He is getting his face in the papers now while he can as he, like the other independents, is at serious risk of losing his seat.

If a change to leadership is made then its very likely the election will happen early August and a vote of no confidence in the Government would result in the same election date in early August.

Antony Green examines it well here http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-10/green-polling-dates/4743932

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

I popped my head in here to see if any intelligence had returned to the debate... Some thankfully, but still rusted-on vs rusted on

 

[casanovawa]

I thought that when the crunch came they may still side with Labor. It will force an election most likely and again, their seats (well, not Katter's) would be at risk. I'd be impressed with Windsor (more than I have been) if he kept to his agreement, and Gillard hasn't exactly fulfilled her side of deal.

He's just trying to scrape whatever positive he can to save his own skin, in terms of looking like he has some credibility or integrity, out of the train wreck... Withdrawing his support will have no effect compared to the 3 years he gave this mob his support, and so should be considered up to his neck in what they delivered...

 

[casanovawa]

I popped my head in here to see if any intelligence had returned to the debate... Some thankfully, but still rusted-on vs rusted on

Oh CFWM, how can the tone of the debate ever get any better if we don't have fair and balanced luminaries such as yourself to show us the way??

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Oh CFWM, how can the tone of the debate ever get any better if we don't have fair and balanced luminaries such as yourself to show us the way??

Haha you've obviously never met me

My left colleagues like to joke that I'm to the right of Ghenghis Khan

 

[casanovawa]

Even if Krudd did lead the ALP to a surprise win he would be gone within 3 months.He would find out the hard way how well he is liked in caucus.

The whole thing would be worthy of a major case study at some psychiatric conference....

The guy everyone has labelled as a major egomaniac, his staff all dropped like flies under his pressure and management skills, his political program fell to pieces while he did his Kevin747 routine, his own party members revolted against him once and then took delight in publicly humiliating him and sticking it to him as hard as any side has ever done to one of their own through our political history.. On top of that he has waged a behind the scenes under mining campaign for the last 3 years that helped cripple his party...

Now with oblivion yawning in front of them, there is a move for an utterly token, self-driven exercise to draft in him to save the skins of a few ministers and members (half who probably knifed him in the first place) without even a shred of thought that he will win the election, just stem the losses... Can anyone think this guy is up for 3 years of leading a smashed opposition and then another 3 years to perhaps get the party back in a semblance of a state to win government back??

So what on earth motivates the guy, he must know whatever the result as soon as his useful to stem the annhilation is up that he will either be knifed again by those who have done it before, continue to dislike him and have boundless ambition... Or they will leave him swinging in the thankless task of being a lame duck opposition leader till they can rid themselves of him closer to the election and so hit the front with energy and without all the blemishes and scars that battling hopelessly for a year or two will inflict on whoever is leader of the opposition... Whether it be Libs or Labs, how many of the poor sods voted to be the new opposition leader after a smashing ever contest the election to become PM??? They all stick in some lame duck, consensus candidate and then the real contenders come out later close to the next poll??

So why does he want to be back?? He's got all the money, has Ban Ki Moon ruled him of the UN possies he has seemed to covet so he can keeping strutting on the world stage??? Or will he be happy to fight one last elelction and then retire from parliament sometime through the next parliament??? Some tip of the hat to posterity to show what his colleagues should have done?? He will never be PM again, his own party will see to that even if the Australian people ever had a brain seizure enough to vote him in...

[edit: i guess he could be PM again for 30 days or so, be the first PM in a while to lose it and regain it, but what a lot of pointless posturing to attain that meaningless achievement???]

And the Labor party will have the odium of knifing another leader in the back before a poll?? Two leaders in two terms (and the first woman to boot) will take some living down as an organisation?!?!?

As i said, psychiatrists would have a field day with this???

 

[Hvr]

The whole thing would be worthy of a major case study at some psychiatric conference....

The guy everyone has labelled as a major egomaniac, his staff all dropped like flies under his pressure and management skills, his political program fell to pieces while he did his Kevin747 routine, his own party members revolted against him once and then took delight in publicly humiliating him and sticking it to him as hard as any side has ever done to one of their own through our political history.. On top of that he has waged a behind the scenes under mining campaign for the last 3 years that helped cripple his party...

<snip>

As i said, psychiatrists would have a field day with this???

I think it is Machiavellian politics at its worst. A business case study on how to self destruct.