Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pukka]

Ice Ice Kevin!!!

[video=youtube;GtyaaT18oyo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtyaaT18oyo[/video]

Funny but no mention if hair driers

 

[froggerADL]

Think about it, on average our Asian neighbors spend less on education than Australia. Their students are graded and divided.

And our Asian neighbours get a Uni degree in order to work in a call centre.

 

[whatmeworry]

And our Asian neighbours get a Uni degree in order to work in a call centre.

Same thing is happening here.

 

[Moody]

No, according to Moody's laws of economics if Australia didn't sell the coal then the Chinese would ignore all the other available coal in the world and not develop their economy and quality of life.

Show me where I said that and I will show you where you said you like kiddie cough.

Moody likes to fly around the place like some of us and post instructions on how the world should be altruistic - from his computer which uses electricity and contains a variety of different metals and plastics, based in a country that has a high quality of life due to a developed economy.

I don't expect the world to be altruistic and certainly not this little cabal of petty right-wing DYKWIA. All I can do is change my own behaviour, and support organisations that take action to reduce a known problem. And the computer I'm typing on now is over 5 years old and is by no means the oldest working computer in the house.

Just interested in what business you work in moody, does everyone in your business have such problems with profits or is it just you? Do you have the secret to getting aeroplanes flying around powered by fairies pixies and unicorn dust? If you do please share.

My main business on this forum is to call out the worst examples of humanity I see here. You know ... the ones who are so desperate to be seen to be important that they go on status runs. They're the ones off with the fairies if you ask me.

 

[Skyring]

My main business on this forum is to call out the worst examples of humanity I see here. You know ... the ones who are so desperate to be seen to be important that they go on status runs. They're the ones off with the fairies if you ask me.

Interesting motivation and you are on the wrong thread for it anyway.

"…the worst examples of humanity…" I don't suppose you'd care to name names, Moody? Or is it just a general class of "people who don't agree with me?"

Or people of a different political outlook or a different faith, with red hair or black skin or speaking a different language?

I don't think it's possible to have a cut-off line for "worst examples of humanity". Not unless you make it totally subjective. Introduce objectivity and you're bound to start including a few saints. You might include yourself, if you are honest.

Some of us here, and I won't name any names, have distinct political views and open their hearts and their wallets to those in need on a regular basis. Political views, altruism, the hobby of chasing status - they are not necessarily related.

And, in any case, they do not define the person. They define the behaviour. Behaviour changes.

I think if we start defining the "worst examples of humanity", then we are into the business of criticising others in the worst possible way. It is not a course aimed at promoting harmony and happiness. Anger, conflict, stress and unhappiness is the more likely end.

Why not give up labelling others, Moody? We are all human, and if we sometimes behave badly, that is all of us, and the best possible way to end bad behaviour is to act as a shining example.

 

[Skyring]

In Victoria, the decline could be blamed on Mother Russia (Joan Kirner) policy shifting from "Equal Opportunity" to "Equality of Outcome". "Equality of Outcome" sounded great, but it brought government schools down to the lowest common denominator... (That is my opinion... let the debate begin please, this is as important as part of Gonski - or whatever-new-name-Rudd-calls-it-now.)

The teacher must follow the student. Understand where their thoughts are going, direct those thoughts to find knowledge and wisdom.

A teacher faced with students at different levels, with different abilities, is going to have a harder task in following the best. Those who need more of the teacher's time will have to get it, leaving those who are capable of quicker and greater understanding to find their own way.

The best learning, I think, comes from inside. It is not a matter of being crammed full of facts and memorising equations or whatever. That helps, of course, but far better to understand (say) calculus than to rotely fill in equations. Those flashes of inspiration come easier when we are with others whose thoughts are travelling on the same track. We share the experience, and if the teacher is any good, they merely guide the learning rather than dictate it.

We do not make up classes from random age groups; we select those at a similar level, and age is the easiest way to do it. For a coarse approximation. If we want to refine our groups, we must understand the students, and that means testing them. Test their learning level, test their intelligence, test their language skills and other abilities.

And keep testing them. Sometimes a penny drops and a student changes tack. Maybe for the better, maybe not.

Kirner, I think, demonstrated some of the very worst behaviour in a leadership role. Instead of promoting her ideas during her teaching career and maybe having them discussed and accepted by her peers, she waited until she was in a position of power and then imposed them from above. That might have been her style of teaching, but it's certainly not the best.

 

[Skyring]

You mean this ?


The CSIRO has done well in context, but it's not within a bull's roar of having "basically invented the web".

That was the NSA, wasn't it? Sitting in the centre of the web, feeling all the vibrations...

 

[Skyring]

Using the laws of physics, there is a limit of how much data can be transmitted via wireless means. Hence why you need cable, not copper and/or wireless.

Yeah, but the laws of economics apply too, and I personally feel very uncomfortable at spending so much of our nation's treasure on entertainment.

We could direct our priorities elsewhere. Education, for instance. Why are we importing skilled workers instead of training our own? Not only are we deskilling Australians, but we are pulling skilled people out of nations that need their talents more.

 

[drsmithy]

Ok. And with that statement it's clear you've no idea. In my living memory, and I'd hazard a guess its a little longer than yours, it has never been as hard as it is right now. Why do you think the Govts prediction of revenue was so out of wack? Not because the economy is steaming along!

You appear to have picked up the goal posts for "employee rights" and replaced them with the hoops of "economic conditions".

Aside from that, "never been as hard as it is right now" ? You _have_ to be joking. Are you seriously trying to argue that economic conditions today are as bad as the low points of the '70s, '80s and '90s recessions ? Because if you are, you're in for a really nasty shock sometime in the next decade.

 

[drsmithy]

Yeah, but the laws of economics apply too, and I personally feel very uncomfortable at spending so much of our nation's treasure on entertainment.

Wow. I can just imagine you telling everyone back in the day how uncomfortable you felt with spending so much of our nations treasure on laying down that copper comms infrastructure, the Snowy Hydro, or all those roads.

The NBN will be generating profit. Not to mention it's almost guarantee sometime in the future a Liberal Government will sell it all offat a massive gain over its original cost so they can fund some tax cuts (or something equally stupid).

We could direct our priorities elsewhere. Education, for instance. Why are we importing skilled workers instead of training our own?

We import skilled workers because business leaders (that are supposedly ignored by politicians) lobby intensely to be able to do so - that way they don't have to spend any time or money investing in developing skills locally, and thus can jump more quickly to the "profit!" part of the business equation.

Not only are we deskilling Australians, but we are pulling skilled people out of nations that need their talents more.

Not according to the free market principles that rule the world today. If their nations really needed them more, they'd be able to pay them enough so they wouldn't want to move.

 

[drron]

At least as much as you do.

Well I suggest you go and read Ms Rineharts speech and not rely on the gross distortions put out by the spin doctors.She was making the point that for new mine spending we are competing against places like Africa where wages can be $2 a day.Reason why well over 100 Australian miners have projects in Africa.

 

[drsmithy]

Well I suggest you go and read Ms Rineharts speech and not rely on the gross distortions put out by the spin doctors.She was making the point that for new mine spending we are competing against places like Africa where wages can be $2 a day.Reason why well over 100 Australian miners have projects in Africa.

I'm well aware of the contents of Miss Rinehart's "speech".

I just thought when you stated the ALP completely ignores business owners we were going into the "absurd hyperbole" phase of the discussion.

 

[Pushka]

You appear to have picked up the goal posts for "employee rights" and replaced them with the hoops of "economic conditions".

Aside from that, "never been as hard as it is right now" ? You _have_ to be joking. Are you seriously trying to argue that economic conditions today are as bad as the low points of the '70s, '80s and '90s recessions ? Because if you are, you're in for a really nasty shock sometime in the next decade.

Thankfully I will be out of the rat race in the next decade and leaving the mess to others. I agree the next decade will be bad and I can see exactly why it happened.
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As far as people being on this forum simply to call the 'bad' behaviour of others. Just Wow. And you call people who do status runs (to make their frequent flying for business more comfortable) DYKWIA's, AND on a Frequent Flyer forum to boot. Please log out as we don't need a moral compass lesson from people we don't know and who have been pretty nasty on this thread. Paradoxical much?

 

[drsmithy]

Of course they do. We strap our employees to the chair and not a comfort break in sight.

An example I saw this morning of the type of abusive cough employers like to engage in when they think they can get away with it.

 

[Pushka]

An example I saw this morning of the type of abusive cough employers like to engage in when they think they can get away with it.

We can go tit for tat on stories like this.
There are bad employers and there are bad employees. But the vast majority of employees/employers enjoy a good working relationship and just get on with it. And usually without the need for Unions. I have FWA website bookmarked and refer to it constantly.

 

[drsmithy]

We can go tit for tat on stories like this.

Yes, but I suspect your examples are mostly going to be once-off employees taking the piss, and mine will be deliberate policies exercised against all employees.

There are bad employers and there are bad employees. But the vast majority of employees/employers enjoy a good working relationship and just get on with it. And usually without the need for Unions. I have FWA website bookmarked and refer to it constantly.

There is a fundamental imbalance of power between employers and most employees.
Many employers handle this imbalance morally and ethically. A non-trivial proportion do not and, worse - albeit predictably - bad behaviour tends to be focussed on the weakest and poorest employees, those least able to act against it.
The two main ways that imbalance can be addressed are legislation and unionism. Good employers will not be bothered by either.
A Liberal Government, however, will be ideologically opposed to both.

 

[Cynicor]

I haven't read all the posts, but my guess after almost 4000 posts is we've all reached an agreement and will be voting as a bloc?

 

[Skyring]

Wow. I can just imagine you telling everyone back in the day how uncomfortable you felt with spending so much of our nations treasure on laying down that copper comms infrastructure, the Snowy Hydro, or all those roads.

LOL! Imagine away.

 

[Skyring]

A Liberal Government, however, will be ideologically opposed to both.

This explains why unions flourish when the Libs are in power and decline for Labor.

 

[Pushka]

Yes, but I suspect your examples are mostly going to be once-off employees taking the piss, and mine will be deliberate policies exercised against all employees.
There is a fundamental imbalance of power between employers and most employees.
Many employers handle this imbalance morally and ethically. A non-trivial proportion do not and, worse - albeit predictably - bad behaviour tends to be focussed on the weakest and poorest employees, those least able to act against it.
The two main ways that imbalance can be addressed are legislation and unionism. Good employers will not be bothered by either.
A Liberal Government, however, will be ideologically opposed to both.

The thing is, and it isn't just politics, but we never seem to achieve the middle ground. Unions are always pretty rampant in their opinions - well, the ones we see on Television. Their manner is usually belligerent, gruffly spoken, and as though they are the spokesperson for all "workers" but they aren't.

There is a very good female Union spokesperson in SA - for Nurses and Midwifes. I think she's brilliant. She is always calm and collected, sees both sides, but clearly presses her claims. Then we have a female Union person for Teachers, and she is always angry and frothing. I dont listen to her because she is just not balanced in her views. i would hope that the former ends up in State Politics. She is a great example of an ethical Labor/Union person.