Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Skyring]

Well the Greens will only be happy when we're all back in horse & carts singing kumbaya.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[medhead]

And Keating couldn't have made his reforms without Howard's support as he got the Liberal party to offer bipartisan support for those reforms.

Which addresses a claim here that the role of opposition is to oppose. The real role of opposition is to ensure good government and good policies are adopted. All of which proves my point about the comments that I was addressing. The good years under Howard were built on the work of successive governments working with strong capable oppositions and were not just the result if the Howard Liberal government. In fact Howard made relatively few reforms, only the consumption tax that Keating couldn't get support to introduce. Wishing for annihilation of the group that will become the opposition, with no more reason that personal bias, is ludicrous and will lead to a bad outcome for the country.

Keating adopted the recommendations of the Campbell Report, commissioned by Howard as Treasurer

I'm sure those recommendations were not the only things to occupy Keating's mind during his time as treasure and PM. He managed to get agreement to adopt those recommendations and he made other reforms. The point remains that this was the work of successive governments not the BS we face today of the next mob undoing the work of the previous lot. Going around in circles and getting nowhere is bad. It is an unproductive waste.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Sorry, but when the wife sits outside the PM's office staring down minister as they are called in to discuss leadership issues - they kinda stop being just the wife.

Now, what would you like to know about me

Very selective example.

I knew people in his office as well but have the decorum of a professional.

Suggest you act likewise

 

[Sprucegoose]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

What were the words to kumbuya again?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Which addresses a claim here that the role of opposition is to oppose. The real role of opposition is to ensure good government and good policies are adopted. All of which proves my point about the comments that I was addressing. The good years under Howard were built on the work of successive governments working with strong capable oppositions and were not just the result if the Howard Liberal government. In fact Howard made relatively few reforms, only the consumption tax that Keating couldn't get support to introduce. Wishing for annihilation of the group that will become the opposition, with no more reason that personal bias, is ludicrous and will lead to a bad outcome for the country.



I'm sure those recommendations were not the only things to occupy Keating's mind during his time as treasure and PM. He managed to get agreement to adopt those recommendations and he made other reforms. The point remains that this was the work of successive governments not the BS we face today of the next mob undoing the work of the previous lot. Going around in circles and getting nowhere is bad. It is an unproductive waste.

And we should all remember that when we cast our vote!!

 

[Skyring]

Which addresses a claim here that the role of opposition is to oppose. The real role of opposition is to ensure good government and good policies are adopted.

By pointing out the lousy ones, perhaps?

Just what were Julia Gillard and the rest of the ALP doing when they criticised Howard's treatment of asylum-seekers for eleven years?

And now we see them administering a regime that's far worse than anything Howard ever had.

Government and opposition work together on many things, but on some, there are differences of opinion representing the differences in their support bases.

And sometimes there is the Opposition - or the media - happily pointing out the holes in government programs. Incompetence, corruption, poor planning. There's always a need to run a critical eye over the management.

I think that the NBN will turn out to be the next scandal. Just how much are we paying, and how much is the thing costing, when only a few people are using it? And then mainly for downloading cough and pirated movies.

 

[serfty]

... And then mainly for downloading cough and pirated movies.

I reckon that's a bit irrelevant to a discussion of any value the NBN may have - such would be done by some - NBN or not ...

 

[amaroo]

Very selective example.

I knew people in his office as well but have the decorum of a professional.

Suggest you act likewise

LOL......whatever your feelings are on the topic - it's pretty clear he could have moved on as a winner rather than the PM that couldn't even win his own seat.

Funny outcome for someone that was always banging on about hubris!

 

[medhead]

By pointing out the lousy ones, perhaps?

Just what were Julia Gillard and the rest of the ALP doing when they criticised Howard's treatment of asylum-seekers for eleven years?

And now we see them administering a regime that's far worse than anything Howard ever had.

You'd have to define worse to make that sensible. Certainly it's worse for xenophobic "true blue Aussie heroes". But it is little different to what Howard had for the first 4 or 5 years as PM. And we need to remember that this government was elected on a platform of changing the ultimate Howard system. Since them their preferred system has been blocked by the opposition who have demanded they go back to the Howard system. I'm not sure how something can be a failed system if it was never set up in the first place. Oh and it is up to the opposition to support border controls because the greens believe in open borders.

Government and opposition work together on many things, but on some, there are differences of opinion representing the differences in their support bases.

And sometimes there is the Opposition - or the media - happily pointing out the holes in government programs. Incompetence, corruption, poor planning. There's always a need to run a critical eye over the management.

As I said working to achieve good policy outcomes for the benefit of the country. I do not think good outcomes and the benefit of Australia has been foremost for the current opposition.

I think that the NBN will turn out to be the next scandal. Just how much are we paying, and how much is the thing costing, when only a few people are using it? And then mainly for downloading cough and pirated movies.

Pretty contemptible comment about people's use of the Internet. The NBN is not needed to do those things. But it is needed for people doing movie animation, for example. Something of an industry that we reportedly do well in Australia.

 

[777]

I think that the NBN will turn out to be the next scandal. Just how much are we paying, and how much is the thing costing, when only a few people are using it? And then mainly for downloading cough and pirated movies.

I'm an NBN guinea pig both at home and work and it's been the biggest boon to my productivity in a decade. It probably saves me several hours a week of time that would otherwise be spent waiting for data to move around. Our neighbourhood has very quickly become home to all manner of IT dependent businesses who are chasing the productivity gains and competitive advantage.

I'm away from home in a hotel today and it simply serves to remind me how slow, cludgy and annoying most internet connections are.

 

[serfty]

... The NBN is not needed to do those things. But it is needed for people doing movie animation, for example. Something of an industry that we reportedly do well in Australia.

Not sure how movie animation is relevant specifically to the NBN, other than perhaps watching content at (maybe) higher bandwidth (similar to watching cough I guess).

 

[Skyring]

Pretty contemptible comment about people's use of the Internet. The NBN is not needed to do those things. (My comment about cough and pirrated movies. - Skyring) But it is needed for people doing movie animation, for example. Something of an industry that we reportedly do well in Australia.

Well, let us consider who the NBN is aimed at - the average Australian. Here's a quote from the NBN website: At NBN Co, our goals are simple - deliver Australia's first national wholesale-only, open access broadband network to all Australians, regardless of where they live.

Just what is the average Australian going to do with the promised "superfast broadband services to Australians in urban and regional towns"?

I don't think that they will take up movie animation or consult a remote doctor. I think that they will use the increased bandwidth to download more stuff.

Look at all these external hard drives for sale. Two terabytes is becoming a medium sized drive nowadays, with 3TB and 4TB available for less than $200. People are buying them, and they aren't using all that capacity for saving their favorite recipes. They are stocking large files away.

 

[drron]

Which addresses a claim here that the role of opposition is to oppose. The real role of opposition is to ensure good government and good policies are adopted. All of which proves my point about the comments that I was addressing. The good years under Howard were built on the work of successive governments working with strong capable oppositions and were not just the result if the Howard Liberal government. In fact Howard made relatively few reforms, only the consumption tax that Keating couldn't get support to introduce. Wishing for annihilation of the group that will become the opposition, with no more reason that personal bias, is ludicrous and will lead to a bad outcome for the country.



I'm sure those recommendations were not the only things to occupy Keating's mind during his time as treasure and PM. He managed to get agreement to adopt those recommendations and he made other reforms. The point remains that this was the work of successive governments not the BS we face today of the next mob undoing the work of the previous lot. Going around in circles and getting nowhere is bad. It is an unproductive waste.

Just a pity then that the Opposition from 1996-2007 opposed all proposed economic reforms of the Government.

 

[medhead]

Not sure how movie animation is relevant specifically to the NBN, other than perhaps watching content at (maybe) higher bandwidth (similar to watching cough I guess).

As in creating the animations and sending them to the movie studios. Not watching them.

 

[Pushka]

Which addresses a claim here that the role of opposition is to oppose. The real role of opposition is to ensure good government and good policies are adopted..

And to ensure good Government, they have to question, query, potentially negate and refute the Government's position. You cannot ensure good government if you simply agree with anything the Government says. Other than the indigenous reforms, the media are never interested in telling us when both benches agree. So there are many things that they have both agreed on that we never hear about. There simply isn't time. What the opposition cant do, or change, is when the Government does deals to get the vote across. And currently they have been doing deals with the devil.

I was listening to a political commentator yesterday, I think from University, who said that Gillard had committed a potentially fatal error in announcing the election date, as she has promoted Abbott to be considered as Alternative PM rather than Leader of the Opposition, and that is a big mental shift.

 

[medhead]

Well, let us consider who the NBN is aimed at - the average Australian. Here's a quote from the NBN website: At NBN Co, our goals are simple - deliver Australia's first national wholesale-only, open access broadband network to all Australians, regardless of where they live.

Sorry but All Australians does not mean average Australian. All Australians include all those Australians who currently do work that is more productive with the NBN. As for taking up animation, that wasn't my suggestion so I'll let you go off on your tangent alone.

 

[medhead]

Just a pity then that the Opposition from 1996-2007 opposed all proposed economic reforms of the Government.

Ok we can go back that way if you wish. In which case Keating's reforms where all his own and had nothing to do with the opposition. Anyway, you've sufficiently distracted from my original point with this stuff. Enjoy.

 

[medhead]

And to ensure good Government, they have to question, query, potentially negate and refute the Government's position. You cannot ensure good government if you simply agree with anything the Government says. Other than the indigenous reforms, the media are never interested in telling us when both benches agree. So there are many things that they have both agreed on that we never hear about. There simply isn't time. What the opposition cant do, or change, is when the Government does deals to get the vote across. And currently they have been doing deals with the devil.
.

Again I DID NOT say they have to agree with everything. But there role is not to oppose everything. As you outline they should play a constructive role. Instead on important issues this opposition has been more interested in political advantage. eg The opposition simply opposed the government on asylum seekers. They did not question, query or refute the government position. They simply said NO.

 

[Skyring]

Sorry but All Australians does not mean average Australian. All Australians include all those Australians who currently do work that is more productive with the NBN.

Of course.

But we're talking here about super fast Internet delivered to residential premises. As well as work stuff, the NBN is aimed at everybody, right where they live. I think anybody reading this knows pretty much what they use their home Internet connection for, and I'm quite sure that few of those purposes would come under the heading of "national productivity".

I commend to all the view of the internet articulated by "Avenue Q".

[video=youtube;m5z5U_xd8EU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5z5U_xd8EU[/video]

 

[drron]

Ok we can go back that way if you wish. In which case Keating's reforms where all his own and had nothing to do with the opposition. Anyway, you've sufficiently distracted from my original point with this stuff. Enjoy.

Only pointing out the truth medhead.Howard supported Keating's economic reforms.The ALP under various leaders did not support howard's economic reforms.
however all Oppositions of all parties still do oppose the Government on many issues which gets publicity but support the government mostly the majority of issues which does not get publicity.

So to answer your point in this quote.Keating's reforms were supported by Howard,Howard's reforms were not supported by the ALP.