Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[MEL_Traveller]

Not quite true.If they were such a compliant population why do they use GPS tracking on everyone.vision of those in isolation or quarantine much easier.In an example I have given before if in hotel quarantine and your phone battery dies hence there bein no GPS signal expect a knock on the door from a policeman within 20 minutes.
This proceedure gets over the problem that a few on here worry about with home isolation of people coming and visiting you.The authorities will even know who it is.

I think that's the point tough? You have to accept - as a compliant population - that you are willing to have the government track your moves with GPS.

There is an insight provided by CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

The population is willing to name and shame those who break quarantine, or don't wear masks... if they breach the rules their face could appear on social media.

The government proactively used electronic health records to monitor people's travel, and alert their GPs. In Australia electronic medical records are optional, and a government using our health records could be subject to privacy concerns.

They also state they had a 'no exceptions' policy for things such as masks... in Australia there are lots of people that want exceptions. Or think the rules don't apply to them.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

New Zealand flights landed in Australia yesterday, so it's a little more than whispered about. Already we have inbound travel from NZ. outbound travel being offered to Singapore, Singapore have already got a 2 way bubble with Hong Kong and Japan is coming up, and there are probably others I don't know of.

I don't see us putting all of this at risk for some country that didn't even try and keep it under control.

yes .... one way travel only, id say thats a whisper not a shout

 

[33kft]

yes .... one way travel only, id say thats a whisper not a shout

It's a gradual approach whichever path you take. The fact it isn't end state yet doesn't invalidate the approach, we have only just met the definition of having it under control again thanks to a 4 month second lockdown in VIC.

 

[drron]

I think that's the point tough? You have to accept - as a compliant population - that you are willing to have the government track your moves with GPS.

There is an insight provided by CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

The population is willing to name and shame those who break quarantine, or don't wear masks... if they breach the rules their face could appear on social media.

The government proactively used electronic health records to monitor people's travel, and alert their GPs. In Australia electronic medical records are optional, and a government using our health records could be subject to privacy concerns.

They also state they had a 'no exceptions' policy for things such as masks... in Australia there are lots of people that want exceptions. Or think the rules don't apply to them.

Well Victoria and QLD have admitted they have used phone data in investigating those who have tried to evade travel restrictions.Personally if the Governments explained that there is a trade off with accepting GPS tracking meaning less severe restrictions then I am sure a majority wouldn't complain about it.heck most of us are already taracked any way.On top of that in larger cities CCTV cameras mean authorities can often find out what you are up to.

Having talked to 2 people who have been in Taiwan since Covid appeared the compulsory mask wearing was in Taipeh not outside the capital where they reported less than 50% seemed to be wearing masks.And hasn't Melbourne basically got compulsory mask wearing?

Also Australians have certainly not been adverse to naming and shaming those not complying with the regulations and many who have broken regulations have appeared on social media.Indeed even people who are legally outside in Victoria and alone have been fined for having a sign protesting the lockdowns.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well Victoria and QLD have admitted they have used phone data in investigating those who have tried to evade travel restrictions.Personally if the Governments explained that there is a trade off with accepting GPS tracking meaning less severe restrictions then I am sure a majority wouldn't complain about it.heck most of us are already taracked any way.On top of that in larger cities CCTV cameras mean authorities can often find out what you are up to.

Having talked to 2 people who have been in Taiwan since Covid appeared the compulsory mask wearing was in Taipeh not outside the capital where they reported less than 50% seemed to be wearing masks.And hasn't Melbourne basically got compulsory mask wearing?

Also Australians have certainly not been adverse to naming and shaming those not complying with the regulations and many who have broken regulations have appeared on social media.Indeed even people who are legally outside in Victoria and alone have been fined for having a sign protesting the lockdowns.

A very small number - a dozen at most, have appeared in the media. A few of the so called 'Karens' or 'Kevins'. And some some of the 'celebrity' escapes from Victoria such as the Lady Pamela.

But we don't name and shame ordinary people. If we did, we'd have the name of the guard that initially breached hotel quarantine, and the cleaner that failed to get tested and spread the disease, etc.

Would we all permit the government to track us? Couldn't even get agreement on downloading the covid-safe app.

Do I want a newly-seconded representative from Helloworld Travel accessing my medical records while they inform my GP of my travel? Ummm... no.

 

[dajop]

Why no tracking? If Dan were to suggest it he’d be facing the weight of the state opposition and the federal government against it. Although if Gladys were to suggest she’d only have the state opposition against it. And both would face opposition from the ABC and the Murdoch press.

In other words a political hot potato.

 

[drron]

Certainly more than a dozen with name and photo on twitter-and you did say social media.

 

[jase05]

That’s not quite accurate, in the north of England that has been hardest hit and further ‘ahead’in the second wave, around Liverpool for example - has ICUs 90% full and predicted to reach capacity next week.

I hope you are right for the sake of the rest of the UK but it isn’t looking great.

Yep. I’ve get plenty of rellies in the UK and they hold grave fears for the coming months.

 

[N860CR]

To get Taiwan's outcomes it seems you need a compliant population. Is that even possible in Australia?

If you don’t treat people like children, they’re less likely to behave like them. Australia suffers from extreme over policing and this leads to resentment amongst the community

 

[jb747]

If you don’t treat people like children, they’re less likely to behave like them. Australia suffers from extreme over policing and this leads to resentment amongst the community

The issue is that 90% will behave well, but that residual 10% will never do so. So, instead of chaining the 10% to large rocks, governments beat up the 90%, whilst the 10 continue to do whatever they want.

Actually, I quite like the idea of chaining gang members to large rocks.

 

[hb13]

Yep. I’ve get plenty of rellies in the UK and they hold grave fears for the coming months.

I'm based in the UK and I agree - it is literally doom and gloom here with everyone I have spoken to across friends, colleagues and clients accepting a second lockdown is imminent and travel is now done for 2020.

The government here in my opinion has handled this really, really poorly. For anyone here based in the UK, or has family in the UK - they will tell you we have had politicians and top medical experts continuously claim how "great" the UK is handling this and how they're following the "science" - complete BS.

The deputy CMO here, Jenny Harries, in April had the unmitigated gall to say the UK had been an international exemplar in preparedness for Covid-19. Most people here wondered if it was ignorance or arrogance, it was a totally laughable and patronising comment.

We locked up here way to late in March, and surprise, surprise, we are late to the party again.

I continue to scratch my head and wonder why western and European countries don't look at Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam and try and learn. It is this arrogance that has got us here. We should be able to say "hey, we didn't do this right, let us look at those countries who did it well and emulate that". And I'm certain those countries would be more than happy to help.

 

[drron]

Interesting I have just read a couple of articles that weren't that complimentary of the UK record or their Secretary of state for Health.

The German coronavirus mystery

Why have British people been dying at six times the rate of those in Germany?

unherd.com

Matt Hancock is wrong about herd immunity

Confusion about the Covid-19 science is hampering debate — and costing lives

unherd.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm based in the UK and I agree - it is literally doom and gloom here with everyone I have spoken to across friends, colleagues and clients accepting a second lockdown is imminent and travel is now done for 2020.

The government here in my opinion has handled this really, really poorly. For anyone here based in the UK, or has family in the UK - they will tell you we have had politicians and top medical experts continuously claim how "great" the UK is handling this and how they're following the "science" - complete BS.

The deputy CMO here, Jenny Harries, in April had the unmitigated gall to say the UK had been an international exemplar in preparedness for Covid-19. Most people here wondered if it was ignorance or arrogance, it was a totally laughable and patronising comment.

We locked up here way to late in March, and surprise, surprise, we are late to the party again.

I continue to scratch my head and wonder why western and European countries don't look at Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam and try and learn. It is this arrogance that has got us here. We should be able to say "hey, we didn't do this right, let us look at those countries who did it well and emulate that". And I'm certain those countries would be more than happy to help.

You raise an interesting point and I gotta admit... while watching the news tonight the thing that struck me is that there was nothing to stop individuals in the UK from wearing masks, or taking other basic measures to protect themselves. We don't need the government to tell us to stop going out for dinners, stop going to house parties, stop going to crowded beaches. No one forced anyone to get on a plane and holiday abroad. No one needs to explicitly direct us to practice physical distancing.

So yeah... it's getting out of control, but governments can't win. Impose restrictions and people complain they are being treated like children. Allow people to behave like adults and they blame government for inaction.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

You raise an interesting point and I gotta admit... while watching the news tonight the thing that struck me is that there was nothing to stop individuals in the UK from wearing masks, or taking other basic measures to protect themselves. We don't need the government to tell us to stop going out for dinners, stop going to house parties, stop going to crowded beaches. No one forced anyone to get on a plane and holiday abroad. No one needs to explicitly direct us to practice physical distancing.

So yeah... it's getting out of control, but governments can't win. Impose restrictions and people complain they are being treated like children. Allow people to behave like adults and they blame government for inaction.

Yep, no one forced anyone to do anything, unless you had a booking with a massive cancellation/change fee. See Ruby Princess.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yep, no one forced anyone to do anything, unless you had a booking with a massive cancellation/change fee. See Ruby Princess.

There will be some with cancellation fees, but also a lot on the EasyJet and Ryanair cheap tickets. Everyone had a 'summer sale'.

I proposed in another thread that airlines, in demanding 'free travel and open borders' should be prepared to accept some of the risk and allow free changes if the passenger is feeling unwell or should be isolating due to covid.

That thought met significant resistance on AFF.

 

[hb13]

You raise an interesting point and I gotta admit... while watching the news tonight the thing that struck me is that there was nothing to stop individuals in the UK from wearing masks, or taking other basic measures to protect themselves. We don't need the government to tell us to stop going out for dinners, stop going to house parties, stop going to crowded beaches. No one forced anyone to get on a plane and holiday abroad. No one needs to explicitly direct us to practice physical distancing.

So yeah... it's getting out of control, but governments can't win. Impose restrictions and people complain they are being treated like children. Allow people to behave like adults and they blame government for inaction.

I agree with you, however, there is a significant part of the population that think this is a hoax, or it is not real. I kid you not, I have met 5 people in the last 2-3 weeks who believe Bill Gates started this to cull the global population. It only takes a few people in every community to not wear masks, not socially distance and not listen. We have a guy at work who refuses to wear a mask and has requested exemption (easy to get online in the UK) so that he doesn't have to wear it. And for the record, he is a fit, young guy. Everyone in the office is sick of it, but, legally, he is "exempt", so no one can do a thing.

I think that's why the government needs to do more here. In Australia, the population is generally very responsible. Sure, there is maybe a very small number of people who don't care. But in the UK, this is now a political issue. When it comes to the health, safety and welfare of its people, a government, in my opinion should be more strict. Heavy fines should be implemented. Especially when you have 20k new cases a day and deaths are in triple figures again. And things are getting worse and worse.

 

[Flashback]

Yep. I’ve get plenty of rellies in the UK and they hold grave fears for the coming months.

As do I, not in terms of what the virus will do but in terms of ........ it's getting colder, it's getting darker earlier, days are shorter, more lockdowns are coming. There's no sight of being able to pop over somewhere nice to have a break from it all. There's probably 5-6 months of this ahead of us. It's already a depressing time of the year here and is only going to get worse. At least during the original lockdown it was on the uptick weather wise so moods were generally OK.

I'm based in the UK and I agree - it is literally doom and gloom here with everyone I have spoken to across friends, colleagues and clients accepting a second lockdown is imminent and travel is now done for 2020.

The government here in my opinion has handled this really, really poorly. For anyone here based in the UK, or has family in the UK - they will tell you we have had politicians and top medical experts continuously claim how "great" the UK is handling this and how they're following the "science" - complete BS.

The deputy CMO here, Jenny Harries, in April had the unmitigated gall to say the UK had been an international exemplar in preparedness for Covid-19. Most people here wondered if it was ignorance or arrogance, it was a totally laughable and patronising comment.

We locked up here way to late in March, and surprise, surprise, we are late to the party again.

I continue to scratch my head and wonder why western and European countries don't look at Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam and try and learn. It is this arrogance that has got us here. We should be able to say "hey, we didn't do this right, let us look at those countries who did it well and emulate that". And I'm certain those countries would be more than happy to help.

Agree with a lot of this, but just to note the UK isn't the only one with its head in the sand. We're not the highest in numbers in Europe, and just recently Netherlands did exactly what the UK did, earlier closing hours, introduced more restrictions etc. which didn't work. Now they've moved back to closure of pubs, restaurants etc. UK says that they won't do that (based on their new alert system, which doesn't really restrict people that much let's be honest), but I can see that coming back in November/December....

 

[jakeseven7]

As do I, not in terms of what the virus will do but in terms of ........ it's getting colder, it's getting darker earlier, days are shorter, more lockdowns are coming. There's no sight of being able to pop over somewhere nice to have a break from it all. There's probably 5-6 months of this ahead of us. It's already a depressing time of the year here and is only going to get worse. At least during the original lockdown it was on the uptick weather wise so moods were generally OK.



Agree with a lot of this, but just to note the UK isn't the only one with its head in the sand. We're not the highest in numbers in Europe, and just recently Netherlands did exactly what the UK did, earlier closing hours, introduced more restrictions etc. which didn't work. Now they've moved back to closure of pubs, restaurants etc. UK says that they won't do that (based on their new alert system, which doesn't really restrict people that much let's be honest), but I can see that coming back in November/December....

Yes the ‘escape’ thing is huge. Winter is when our relatives always come to us or go somewhere bright and warm to escape England during Autumn / Winter. Clearly that isn’t going to be happening and everyone there is going to have to bunker down for a very long miserable 5-6months with the virus moving around as well

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Received the following today:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sigh.

Both for the extended closure of Victoria. But also that it appears QF hotels can’t help but make a profit from the credit voucher. (1000 points valued between $7 and $12, which I suspect will be far less than the commission they made from the booking.)