Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[dajop]

For all the talk, there is no sign of even wanting to be prepared

Singapore Airlines says travel bubble talks are grounded

The carrier says talks with the Australian government about a travel bubble with Singapore aren’t going anywhere, hindering planning protocols to ensure travel can resume safely.

www.smh.com.au

Knock me down with a feather. What's disappointing that despite all the talk and hot air about bubbles, you get this comment ... "Mr Arul said it was clear Australia was not prepared to start serious discussions about a bubble until it had vaccinated more of its population. But that was no reason not to start planning now, he said, to ensure appropriate systems were in place when the time was right to restart international travel."

Planning? No such thing!

A bit like the hot air about more arrivals into Howard Springs. Lots of bluster, expanding capacity to 2000 by June. I've counted 5 flights that have gone into there this month.

Announcements about announcements, that's all we get.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The Atlantic

This is an interesting article and gives more of a perspective on the Asia /Oceania approach to Covid-19 . It puts into context the Australian response and the comparison with our region.
We are far from an outlier here no matter how much it appears from Latika Bourke et al.

 

[roogirl]

My goodness me.Being a casual contact in Australia is very different from coming from OS.Very few countries with fewer cases than Australia.
Bit rich from those from the UK who are seeing another surge in cases with the majority being the delta variant.
View attachment 251246.

Even hospitalisations and deaths starting to rise again.

And the NSW politicians are doing things by the NSW rules.

Casual contacts​

A casual contact is someone who has been near a confirmed case of COVID-19 while they were infectious but is considered by NSW Health at lower risk than a close contact.
Some casual contacts however may have a higher risk of infection associated with exposure to a COVID-19 confirmed case and will be asked to

get tested immediately and
isolate until a negative test result is received.

If you are evaluated as either a higher risk casual contact or lower risk a casual contact

watch for COVID-19 symptoms

immediately get tested if you develop any symptoms.

When you are tested for COVID-19, return home immediately and self-isolate until you receive your test result.

Testing and what to do if you have COVID-19

What to do if you think you may have COVID-19, including how to get tested and guidance on what to do if you test positive.

www.nsw.gov.au

I wasn’t talking about being a casual contact, I meant a close contact - which means you have been in close contact with someone who actually has covid. That’s where the disparity is I think.

worth noting that in the U.K. is testing 6m people a week so a big chunk of these cases are asymptomatic. The vaccines work against serious illness - thank god, or we would be having an entirely different conversation!

 

[N860CR]

It is amazing how we’ve all succumbed to extreme Stockholm syndrome.
I was on parramatta road at ashfield today and saw a line of cars lined up for “testing” . No country in the world has subjected its citizens to this constant useless “testing” for the sake of propping up numbers. Everytime we have an “outbreak” our testing increases and we find numerous other “outbreaks”. How about we stop randomly testing people (purely for the fun of it) and then we won’t have these “outbreaks”.

We are supposedly in the middle of a global pandemic, but when did anybody in this country actually last get sick?

 

[drron]

I wasn’t talking about being a casual contact, I meant a close contact - which means you have been in close contact with someone who actually has covid. That’s where the disparity is I think.

worth noting that in the U.K. is testing 6m people a week so a big chunk of these cases are asymptomatic. The vaccines work against serious illness - thank god, or we would be having an entirely different conversation!

But I was answering those that implied the NSW politicians had disobeyed their own rulrs.They hadn't.They were casual contacts but possibly higher risk so isolated until a negative test.
Plus in the UK hospitalisations and deaths are also rising.
And asymptomatic patients can still spread the disease even if vaccinated.

 

[roogirl]

But I was answering those that implied the NSW politicians had disobeyed their own rulrs.They hadn't.They were casual contacts but possibly higher risk so isolated until a negative test.
Plus in the UK hospitalisations and deaths are also rising.
And asymptomatic patients can still spread the disease even if vaccinated.

Oh I see. Sorry!

as an aside uk data is showing hospitalisations not increasing in line w cases. Ofc asymptomatic cases can spread it but that’s not a reason to shut down society. July 19 looking good for the next step (and I booked a long weekend in Ibiza next week so am feeling happy today!)

 

[Pushka]

Oh I see. Sorry!

as an aside uk data is showing hospitalisations not increasing in line w cases. Ofc asymptomatic cases can spread it but that’s not a reason to shut down society. July 19 looking good for the next step (and I booked a long weekend in Ibiza next week so am feeling happy today!)

We have to change from number of positives to numbers in hospitals or we will be locked away forever.

 

[MooTime]

We have to change from number of positives to numbers in hospitals or we will be locked away forever.

Great idea, like that a lot.
Hope this didn't come across wrongly, but who cares if 50ppl or even 500 have symptoms, fever, headaches etc, entering hospital as a patient nobody likes.

I'm going to start just looking at that metric.
Cheers

 

[oznflfan]

We have to change from number of positives to numbers in hospitals or we will be locked away forever.

The PM was saying exactly that in around Feb this year, until his advisors tapped him on the shoulder and stated polling says majority of Aussies are scaredy-cats and want borders closed so no COVID can sneak in. Like a good soldier he listened and abruptly changed his stance.

Same advisors will state open borders lickety-split as soon as election is over (and prob won). Medical advice had changed, more data in, if you are vaccinated, international borders are now open. Good for the country, good for trade, good for economy.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The PM was saying exactly that in around Feb this year, until his advisors tapped him on the shoulder and stated polling says majority of Aussies are scaredy-cats and want borders closed so no COVID can sneak in. Like a good soldier he listened and abruptly changed his stance.

Same advisors will state open borders lickety-split as soon as election is over (and prob won). Medical advice had changed, more data in, if you are vaccinated, international borders are now open. Good for the country, good for trade, good for economy.

The article posted by Princess Fiona (above) suggests elimination and rapid lockdowns on any outbreaks has resulted in better economies and fewer restrictions on civil liberties than countries that have gone for suppression only.

We are not fully vaccinated in Australia yet - a long way from it. Perhaps our efforts should be directed at encouraging people to get vaccinated rather than angst against the government? But encouraging everyone to get vaccinated has its own challenges when some in the younger cohorts see no reason to get vaccinated because it's 'only a mild virus' and 'only affects those at the end of their life anyway... '

 

[oznflfan]

The article posted by Princess Fiona (above) suggests elimination and rapid lockdowns on any outbreaks has resulted in better economies and fewer restrictions on civil liberties than countries that have gone for suppression only.

We are not fully vaccinated in Australia yet - a long way from it. Perhaps our efforts should be directed at encouraging people to get vaccinated rather than angst against the government? But encouraging everyone to get vaccinated has its own challenges when some in the younger cohorts see no reason to get vaccinated because it's 'only a mild virus' and 'only affects those at the end of their life anyway... '

That's why we need to change from a pretty please to a (at least version of) big stick.

 

[dajop]

I know some on here still subscribe to the theory this thing is no worse than the flu. But unchecked it is. I don’t know a single colleague in India who has not had someone near to them pass away from it. It’s not normal for us to have fundraising drives for the children of employees in India because our employee and their spouse have passed away. It’s still bad.

So I still would like to think governments are doing this to protect everyone.

But, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a pathway out. Spend some serious money boosting confidence in AZ. Commit to a vaccination rollout plan. Explain what it means for borders and travel Look at what we need to achieve to stop worrying about cases. Start working with other countries to open up even somewhat restricted - but freer than now - travel.

If doesn’t have to be and never will be the rip the band-aid off approach that some of our more colourful contributors suggest. Nor going to happen as much as people wish. If expecting that better start working on your plans to leave Australia for good.

But the very least I would expect from the government is some sort of plan and a coherent message/campaign around vaccinations and shifting the needle from obsessing over casss to hospitalisations . Some leadership rather than followership.

 

[levelnine]

This is an interesting article and gives more of a perspective on the Asia /Oceania approach to Covid-19 . It puts into context the Australian response and the comparison with our region.
We are far from an outlier here no matter how much it appears from Latika Bourke et al.

Not really 'interesting'. The state that has pursued similarly draconian measures cited in that article is an authoritarian state with a horrific human rights record — China (incl Hong Kong). If you look at the links cited in that article, only one points to a country other than China (the cancellation of worker permits for rule breakers in Singapore). The other countries cited (eg Vietnam, Taiwan) are cited for their struggles in procuring vaccines, not for their lockdowns/border controls.

If the only company we are keeping is with a state with a horrific human rights record, it is a point of embarrassment, not 'perspective'.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not really 'interesting'. The state that has pursued similarly draconian measures cited in that article is an authoritarian state with a horrific human rights record — China (incl Hong Kong). If you look at the links cited in that article, only one points to a country other than China (the cancellation of worker permits for rule breakers in Singapore). The other countries cited (eg Vietnam, Taiwan) are cited for their struggles in procuring vaccines, not for their lockdowns/border controls.

If the only company we are keeping is with a state with a horrific human rights record, it is a point of embarrassment, not 'perspective'.

I think the ‘regime’ and the outcomes are two different issues? Whether a democracy goes for elimination, or an authoritarian regime... it’s the outcome that has resulted in better economies, vastly less stress on the health system, and a low death toll. Otherwise we’re going to say that our right to liberty outweighs any health protection measures... like they did in the USA. That didn’t turn out so well

 

[Pushka]

The PM was saying exactly that in around Feb this year, until his advisors tapped him on the shoulder and stated polling says majority of Aussies are scaredy-cats and want borders closed so no COVID can sneak in. Like a good soldier he listened and abruptly changed his stance.

Same advisors will state open borders lickety-split as soon as election is over (and prob won). Medical advice had changed, more data in, if you are vaccinated, international borders are now open. Good for the country, good for trade, good for economy.

Trouble is I’m not sure the opposition would be any better.

 

[oz_mark]

Trouble is I’m not sure the opposition would be any better.

Same public service, same fleet of.consultants and advisors. I expect it would be much the same.

 

[mviy]

Well the PM is now proposing some locations for purpose built quarantine facilities: PM’s big move on quarantine

These needed to be built already. Hopefully the states and the Feds can quickly come to agreement on these facilities and get moving with building them.

Whether through home quarantine or dedicated quarantine facilities or both we need a way to scale up quarantine as an intermediate step before fully opening the borders that allows more people to travel.

 

[jakeseven7]

Well the PM is now proposing some locations for purpose built quarantine facilities: PM’s big move on quarantine

These needed to be built already. Hopefully the states and the Feds can quickly come to agreement on these facilities and get moving with building them.

Whether through home quarantine or dedicated quarantine facilities or both we need a way to scale up quarantine as an intermediate step before fully opening the borders that allows more people to travel.

Well yes, but he gave QLD a big slap and a go away and try again, but gave VIC lots of $ and a yes! So watch that descend into a whinging match from us (QLD)!

 

[dajop]

Same public service, same fleet of.consultants and advisors. I expect it would be much the same.

Ditto in Victoria as well as national level. If there's one thing that I would expect the entire parliament to take out of what happened in Victoria last year is that the health bureaucracy may need to be dismantled in a brick by brick manner (i.e. very carefully) and rebuilt to be more nimble and agile and responsive to the needs of the communities it serves. (oh and the other thing, build one less road and invest in improved IT).

But unfortunately cultural and structural issues whether it feds or states, related to overseas borders or health departments or hospitals are not so easily shown off or targeted in election campaigns, and not as easy to blame person. So they warrant very little media attention (we're still hearing about the "who made the decision" in Victoria, rather than "Why wasn't health dept fixed years ago").

 

[levelnine]

I think the ‘regime’ and the outcomes are two different issues? Whether a democracy goes for elimination, or an authoritarian regime... it’s the outcome that has resulted in better economies, vastly less stress on the health system, and a low death toll. Otherwise we’re going to say that our right to liberty outweighs any health protection measures... like they did in the USA. That didn’t turn out so well

It's perfectly consistent to say Australia did well in 2020 (in comparison to, say, the UK or the US) in preventing the spread of COVID-19 and is now doing horrifically poorly in 2021 (in comparison to, say, the entire developed world). We are now one of the only countries in the world that prohibits its citizens from leaving, we continue to have stranded thousands of our citizens overseas, and our vaccine roll out is now the slowest in the OECD.