Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[Flashback]

Something doesn't quite add up here...

Perth family, including infant, 'stranded at London airport for days'

Heartbreaking images of children sleeping on the floor of Heathrow Airport have sparked outrage on social media, after a Perth mother-of-three claimed her family had been stranded for three days, unable to board any flights home.

www.watoday.com.au

Why are they stuck at LHR? Were they in transit from somewhere (less likely as QR still has a decent network)? Have they been holidaying for nearly 6 months? Just finishing a long term stay in the UK and their lease is then out? Just can't work it out.

 

[OATEK]

Something doesn't quite add up here...

Perth family, including infant, 'stranded at London airport for days'

Heartbreaking images of children sleeping on the floor of Heathrow Airport have sparked outrage on social media, after a Perth mother-of-three claimed her family had been stranded for three days, unable to board any flights home.

www.watoday.com.au

Why are they stuck at LHR? Were they in transit from somewhere (less likely as QR still has a decent network)? Have they been holidaying for nearly 6 months? Just finishing a long term stay in the UK and their lease is then out? Just can't work it out.

I thought I read they had given up their lease, either forwarded or disposed of their furniture, and then were bumped from their flight. There are a few stories like this, so it might be a different family.

 

[levelnine]

The stories of hardship just keep on racking up yet the Commonwealth Government continues to do next to nothing to assist ...

'What country leaves their people in these situations?': Couple stuck in Ukraine with twins plead with PM for help to get home

A Perth couple pleads with Prime Minister Scott Morrison to relax international flight caps so they can return from Ukraine to be reunited with their young sons, who they have not seen in months.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Danger]

I really hope that Western Govts have already (quietly so that's why we don't know about it) started to ensure that the production capacity for the glass single use injection vials is ramped up NOW and not after its needed. I recall one of the reasons that the Flu vaccine took so long to ramp up apart from enough eggs etc - was the increased need for the glass single use injection vials.

Is there a reason the vials have to be single use? Obviously the syringes need to be but why can't the container come in larger sizes?

I thought I read they had given up their lease, either forwarded or disposed of their furniture, and then were bumped from their flight. There are a few stories like this, so it might be a different family.

Without having read the story, if the family is flying out of London, I presume they are entitled to EU261 payment each and every time they are bumped, in which case they'll soon have enough to buy J seats.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Without having read the story, if the family is flying out of London, I presume they are entitled to EU261 payment each and every time they are bumped, in which case they'll soon have enough to buy J seats.

That's a good question.

Covid per se has been ruled an extraordinary circumstance, so the normal rights to compensation are suspended.

However... there could be an argument that if an airline is aware of the cap, yet still chooses to overbook, then it is no longer an 'extraordinary' circumstance, ie it is now business as usual.

However, that would need to be tested with the authorities, and no doubt the airlines will claimthat the reason for bumping pax is because the caps have changed, and the government is requesting the accommodation of priority cases, meaning the airline has no choice but to 'roll forward'.

 

[Seat0B]

The stories of hardship just keep on racking up yet the Commonwealth Government continues to do next to nothing to assist ...

'What country leaves their people in these situations?': Couple stuck in Ukraine with twins plead with PM for help to get home

A Perth couple pleads with Prime Minister Scott Morrison to relax international flight caps so they can return from Ukraine to be reunited with their young sons, who they have not seen in months.

www.abc.net.au

Glad you said next to nothing there @levelnine when the government has so generously offered low interest loans to people in these situations (removes tongue from cheek). As I said elsewhere, surely this is a story about the attitudes of the former soviet bloc, not my Australia. Feeling despondent.

 

[dajop]

Glad you said next to nothing there @levelnine when the government has so generously offered low interest loans to people in these situations (removes tongue from cheek). As I said elsewhere, surely this is a story about the attitudes of the former soviet bloc, not my Australia. Feeling despondent.

The pathetic bit is that the hotel quarantine program has been running now for almost 6 months and by now there should be plenty of data as to the greatest risk returnees, loads of experience on best practices and more than adequate time to train sufficient resources, a flow of funds to defray the cost (charging return travellers) and plenty of time to work out solutions to some of the problems that have been encountered in Vic and elsewhere. But there is been a total abrogation of leadership in solving these problems.

I assume the political poison of what happened in Victoria is so toxic that no leader wants to tackle a solution other than closing the valve as much as they possibly can.

 

[Seat0B]

The pathetic bit is that the hotel quarantine program has been running now for almost 6 months and by now there should be plenty of data as to the greatest risk returnees, loads of experience on best practices and more than adequate time to train sufficient resources, a flow of funds to defray the cost (charging return travellers) and plenty of time to work out solutions to some of the problems that have been encountered in Vic and elsewhere. But there is been a total abrogation of leadership in solving these problems.

I assume the political poison of what happened in Victoria is so toxic that no leader wants to tackle a solution other than closing the valve as much as they possibly can.

Once again I could not agree more stongly @dajop. Plus there are apparently plenty of extra hotel rooms, and an army of newly unemployed people who could by now have done plenty of training in PPE and infection control.

They need to get @CaseyBriggs onto the job of the data analysis - he's been doing a wonderful job for the ABC on The Curve. Or one of the numerous other lower profile data boffins.

 

[dajop]

and an army of newly unemployed people who could by now have done plenty of training in PPE and infection control.

Always thought idle Jetstar checkin agents would be the best. They are well versed in following procedures and officious at enforcing.

And what are all the airport security, border force etc staff doing at the moment?

 

[Seat0B]

Again, I could not decide between lolz and agree, so went with lolz and a post!

 

[love_the_life]

Part of the problem I think for the 2 sets of Australians in the stories about being abandoned overseas is that they are both flying into Perth - regardless of whether you agree with the cap or not, very low numbers are coming into Perth - just 75 per day.

 

[jakeseven7]

Part of the problem I think for the 2 sets of Australians in the stories about being abandoned overseas is that they are both flying into Perth - regardless of whether you agree with the cap or not, very low numbers are coming into Perth - just 75 per day.

But Perth is sooooo busy managing all their other community transmission Covid related cases how could they possibly do any more than the bare minimum they are doing now......

 

[hb13]

I think the powers at be need to wake up, or else Australia will not have a tourism or aviation industry full stop. The fact that the government has agreed to purchase enough vaccines for the whole population is not a solution. To sit there and wait for a vaccine before resuming international travel and opening state borders is a nothing strategy that will kill the aviation industry. This is ridiculous. A vaccine, if we are being optimistic isn't going to be available for 6 - 9 months - at best.

We need to devise strategies to live with this virus. IMO, money and R&D should be put into developing accurate rapid-fire tests and antibody testing, making enough quantity for the population multiple times over. Try and get the whole population tested, allowing people to return to normal life based on a negative test result, or even a weekly/fortnightly test. This is far more realistic in the near future. People coming from overseas can then only quarantine for 5/6 days and get two tests (Day 1 and 5, assuming results returned in less than a couple of hours).

In the meantime, we allow the scientists the time to create a safe, effective vaccine with no pressure, which can force mistakes.

I know this isn't foolproof, but nothing is. There is risk in literally everything we do - it's about managing the risk. Covid-19 isn't going anywhere for the next few years. A vaccine, even if one is being optimistic won't be available before Q2/Q3 2021. Then, you need to convince people it is safe. Then you need everyone to get it, which will take weeks/months. We need to forget the vaccine - just for now - and devise strategies to manage the virus and go about things as safe as possible.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...

To sit there and wait for a vaccine before resuming international travel and opening state borders is a nothing strategy that will kill the aviation industry. This is ridiculous. A vaccine, if we are being optimistic isn't going to be available for 6 - 9 months - at best.

...

Covid-19 isn't going anywhere for the next few years. A vaccine, even if one is being optimistic won't be available before Q2/Q3 2022.

I think the current estimates are March/April 2021, not 2022.

Kill the aviation industry? Our supposed international flag carrier gave up at the first opportunity, and used covid as an excuse to sack thousands of staff and outsource them. International carriers are providing the lifelines into and out of Australia. Perhaps we should be focusing on them in future as they're the ones that haven't abandoned us?

I agree we may need to look for a 'covid normal', but I think we should wait just a few more weeks to see if the current vaccine trials show promise. Going 'too early' could be even worse for the economy.

 

[jeza]

Everybody seems to be focusing purely on the International travelers requiring Quarantine, what about the Domestic side of the equation? Anybody seen any data on those?

 

[hb13]

Everybody seems to be focusing purely on the International travelers requiring Quarantine, what about the Domestic side of the equation? Anybody seen any data on those?

I agree - and I have made mention of it. As this thread is focused on international flights, I didn't elaborate.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Everybody seems to be focusing purely on the International travelers requiring Quarantine, what about the Domestic side of the equation? Anybody seen any data on those?

Well this is the international flights prediction thread.

 

[jeza]

The thread may be about International Arrivals but Domestic Quarantine requirements are quite possibly a contributing factor as to why some states may be limiting International arrivals, so is an entirely relevant point to be considered.

 

[hb13]

I think the current estimates are March/April 2021, not 2022.

Kill the aviation industry? Our supposed international flag carrier gave up at the first opportunity, and used covid as an excuse to sack thousands of staff and outsource them. International carriers are providing the lifelines into and out of Australia. Perhaps we should be focusing on them in future as they're the ones that haven't abandoned us?

I agree we may need to look for a 'covid normal', but I think we should wait just a few more weeks to see if the current vaccine trials show promise. Going 'too early' could be even worse for the economy.

You're correct re 2021, and not 2022 - it was a typo on my end, which I have changed.

Now regarding Qantas - what do you want them to do? Based on purely 5 months of this pandemic they have lost over $2 billion. Alan Joyce literally has his hands tied. As an airline, they can't fly anywhere. I feel absolutely horrible for those that have lost their jobs, I can only imagine their pain. But it's on the government to support them in my opinion.

Regarding international airlines, as great as they have been - what is going on is not sustainable and they have actually come out and said they will stop flying to Australia if this madness continues:

We’ll stop flying if caps remain, warn international airlines

The industry body for international airlines has warned its members will have no choice but to stop flying to Australia if arrival caps aren’t increased.

australianaviation.com.au

So, we can't really focus on them. Again, no fault of their own, but this can't continue for them.

Regarding the vaccine, I wish you were right, I really do, but the reality is, it's going to be months before we hear any definitive news. The most optimistic people in the room, including the Astra-Zenica (oxford vaccine) CEO have said they think it'll be ready early 2021.

My point is we should take the focus off the scientists and doctors, who are working around the clock and doing their best to get a vaccine asap. Let them do that in peace. We know how to test for this, lets improve our testing in terms of accuracy and speed - that is the only way forward temporarily. I hate this just as much as anyone, and I hate hearing airline after airline "shrinking and becoming smaller" - people are losing their livelihoods, jobs, careers and that is unbearable. The people working in the travel and tourism industry should be as protected as anyone else.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Now regarding Qantas - what do you want them to do?

As RAM nicely put it in another thread... 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

QF has had years of massive profits. Yet at the first sign of trouble none of those profits seem to go back into the business or the welfare of staff and customers. They essentially close down.

Many small businesses are digging in to their own pockets to support staff... to keep people employed. Digging in to their bank balances or drawing on lines of credit.