Project Sunrise: A350 or 777X?

[codash1099]

Qantas rejects Airbus and Boeing offers for non-stop New York jets

Not really surprised by this given how marginal the business case appears to be...

How much of the cost of running these routes is based on the cost of the A/C?

 

[DC3]

A statement rejecting current offers would just be part of the negotiation process I would say.

 

[kelvedon]

Is this all beginning to sound like a PR exercise ? The resoundingly successful “research flight” where everyone travelled in business class and exercised in the aisles of the empty economy section is hardly representative of a commercial flight. And they can always blame the intransigent work practices of the Pilots and Crew as well as aircraft manufacturers for spoiling AJ’s visionary dream. ( if that’s not a pleonasm !)

 

[RooFlyer]

Is this all beginning to sound like a PR exercise ?

Its ALWAYS sounded like a PR exercise!

 

[moa999]

Given these offers were received in August, a full rejection would have been cancelling the Sunrise test flights.

This is negotiation.

 

[codash1099]

Given these offers were received in August, a full rejection would have been cancelling the Sunrise test flights.

This is negotiation.

.......and fairly crude negotiation at that.

 

[DC3]

Given these offers were received in August, a full rejection would have been cancelling the Sunrise test flights.

This is negotiation.

.......and fairly crude negotiation at that.

.... will will probably have to wait to see how effective?

 

[jetset]

Qantas rejects Airbus and Boeing offers for non-stop New York jets

Not really surprised by this given how marginal the business case appears to be...

Usual Alan Joyce tactics.

 

[juddles]

Its ALWAYS sounded like a PR exercise!

My friend, I disagree.

As I have explained previously, I believe that Project Sunrise and ultra-long flights is a correct business focus for Qantas. Australia is at the ar_e-end of the world geographically, so any airline trying to compete from here is in a unique situation. The international airline playing field is not fair or similar. Qantas will always suffer from some higher cost basis things. Unless they go 100% with overseas maintenance and staffing. And that is without even considering the support that other governments give their airlines....

It is completely ridiculous, IMHO, to think that Qantas can compete on the bare basics.

In a truly international industry you have to find something that you can strive for, and I think ULH flights maybe something that QF can do and anchor upon.

So many things are set price in the aviation world. Planes cost the same to all airlines (effectively). Same as fuel and maintenance, unless due to industrial relations you are forced to pay higher wages. Qantas has a great record with the hard product in terms of safety. And even in terms of enjoyment their hard product internationally is ok. But they cannot employ aussie staff for around $30k per annum as other airlines do and get people that happily grovel and kiss cough. That is just not an aussie reality.

So they have to compete with something. If it is not hard product, soft product, price, then it has to be something else.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

What is with all the negativity re QF LHR-SYD?

Look the whole world is clamouring aboard yet so many naysayers are congregating here?



Granted their geography may be a tad off which is strange for the internet where truth and accuracy reigns.

 

[RooFlyer]

Granted their geography may be a tad off which is strange for the internet where truth and accuracy reigns.

I think the fact that they didn't utilise the 'G' or the 'l' is highly significant.

What is with all the negativity re QF LHR-SYD?

Not so much negativity as cynicism, I think. Its Qantas making promises and predictions.

 

[justinbrett]

What is with all the negativity re QF LHR-SYD?

Look the whole world is clamouring aboard yet so many naysayers are congregating here?

View attachment 197301

Granted their geography may be a tad off which is strange for the internet where truth and accuracy reigns.

That google homepage is honouring the birthday of the late Maude Bonney, who was the first woman to fly solo from Australia to the UK. It has nothing to do with Qantas or project sunrise.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Maybe so - but again in true AFF fashion lets not let truth and accuracy get in the way of posting.

 

[jb747]

Given these offers were received in August, a full rejection would have been cancelling the Sunrise test flights.

What test flights? These were simply long winded delivery flights. There was nothing 'test' about them.

 

[drron]

For me nothing to do with being QF.I just would hate to do a flight of those legs even in F.Which is why we have paid flights to Asia then use our points for F to Europe on the USA.Not going to change that even if it was SQ or JAL offering those flights.

 

[jase05]

Interesting article I just saw on airlineratings.com
This bit grabbed my attention “Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has said that Boeing has made the airline an extremely attractive offer for Project Sunrise that many say it can’t refuse but details are scant”

Will Qantas take 777-200LRs as interim Sunrise aircraft? - Airline Ratings

It is emerging that the interim solution being offered by Boeing for its Project Sunrise may be a fleet of 777-200LRs. The US manufacturer has slowed the development of its longer-ranged 777X-8 the logical aircraft for the mission and it was thought that Boeing would compensate Qantas for...

www.airlineratings.com

 

[Flying Fox]

Gosh, that would be a PIA to fly the B777-200LR for a few years (new pilots/training, spares etc etc) and switch to the B777-8X.

Subject to the phrase of 'Boeing just giving the planes away' this would surely put the A350-1000LR ahead?

 

[moa999]

It's been generally panned over on airliners.net by most.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Qantas boss Alan Joyce said on Tuesday that based on media coverage of two "research flights" from New York and London using Boeing 787s, there was "huge demand" for the new services, and expected the airline could demand a 30 per cent price premium over other airlines for offering a non-stop service on the routes.

This pineapple isn’t interested in paying a 30% premium for such a flight. In fact he’d probably pay less and fly something just as nice with someone else. This is looking like PR pixieland to me, with AJ getting more and more mired in his own hubris.

Cheers skip

 

[moa999]

AJ has been talking about premium margins a little too much for my liking recently.

One analysts report suggested they though they could get 20% domestic margins.. I'd see that as an open invitation to another carrier
(Much like when Woolworths and Coles had some of the highest supermarket margins, in came Aldi and CostCo)