Qantas Fleet

[IGetAround]

In the ASX announcement today they mention fleet optimisation to reduce losses. What will this mean in practice?

My first thoughts were heavier utilisation of the A380s on SYD-HKG and SYD-LAX, possibly combined with cutting QF9 DXB-LHR, in order to facilitate 747 retirements. I hope I'm mistaken.

 

[codash1099]

Cheaper to run than a four burner half loaded, and still in production.

What four burners are flying domestically?

 

[CaviAck]

What four burners are flying domestically?

747s used to do transcon. But for today only one I can think of is QF8 BNE-SYD.

 

[Isochronous]

Don't rule it out, they already do some CBR-ADL and CBR-BNE legs!

Sounds dreadful.

 

[eastwest101]

In the ASX announcement today they mention fleet optimisation to reduce losses. What will this mean in practice?

You would have to think better/higher aircraft utilization for the QFi fleet - particularly A380 & B747 fleet so maybe retiming of some LHR/DXB/LAX and DFW services - but the SYD curfew is still a problem......

Accelerated retirement of B767 fleet not out of the question, if QF management back down from their 65% Line in the Sand suicide note.

Or even sillier but not out of the question would be wholesale retirement of the entire B747, B767 & B717 and older B737 fleet. All the A320s, A330s, B787s and A380s either repainted in silver and orange, or maybe in EK colours??? Dash 8s QFlink on the golden triangle every 30mins? :idea:

 

[Mattg]

You would have to think better/higher aircraft utilization for the QFi fleet - particularly A380 & B747 fleet so maybe retiming of some LHR/DXB/LAX and DFW services - but the SYD curfew is still a problem......

I have worked out that by retiming the QF1/9 to make them evening departures/lunchtime arrivals into LHR and making QF12 a day flight (e.g. depart LAX 9am, arrive SYD 7pm), QF could actually add another A380 route utilising the existing fleet (e.g. BNE-LAX); in doing so freeing up a 747 for another route/retirement.

 

[Isochronous]

I have worked out that by retiming the QF1/9 to make them evening departures/lunchtime arrivals into LHR and making QF12 a day flight (e.g. depart LAX 9am, arrive SYD 7pm), QF could actually add another A380 route utilising the existing fleet (e.g. BNE-LAX); in doing so freeing up a 747 for another route/retirement.

Aren't the LAX flights all deliberately late at night because it reduces fuel burn or something like that?

 

[Mattg]

Aren't the LAX flights all deliberately late at night because it reduces fuel burn or something like that?

Not sure about that, I would be very surprised if the time of day effected fuel burn. My understanding is that QF107/108, QF15/16 and QF93/94 are timed the way they are so they can meet the JFK flight, but QF12 doesn't meet this anyway so I don't see too many issues with retiming it. In fact, QF would be the only airline running a US-AUS service as a daytime flight and it would provide customers with a greater flexibility as there are two LAX-SYD flights daily anyway, but currently the schedules almost mirror each other.

 

[Programme]

I have worked out that by retiming the QF1/9 to make them evening departures/lunchtime arrivals into LHR and making QF12 a day flight (e.g. depart LAX 9am, arrive SYD 7pm), QF could actually add another A380 route utilising the existing fleet (e.g. BNE-LAX); in doing so freeing up a 747 for another route/retirement.

Part of the problem there would surely be available slots at LHR? Also, the current arrival well before business hours allows a full first day in London - possibly an advantage that the alternate timing doesn't enjoy.

Not sure about that, I would be very surprised if the time of day effected fuel burn. My understanding is that QF107/108, QF15/16 and QF93/94 are timed the way they are so they can meet the JFK flight, but QF12 doesn't meet this anyway so I don't see too many issues with retiming it. In fact, QF would be the only airline running a US-AUS service as a daytime flight and it would provide customers with a greater flexibility as there are two LAX-SYD flights daily anyway, but currently the schedules almost mirror each other.

If the JFK tag flight is the only reason why QF have two A380s and one 744 sitting at LAX for around 18 hours every day, there is something seriously wrong here. Why not station a 763 or 332 at LAX for the tag flight and retime the 380/744 routes for higher utilisation?

 

[ajw373]

Part of the problem there would surely be available slots at LHR? Also, the current arrival well before business hours allows a full first day in London - possibly an advantage that the alternate timing doesn't enjoy.

They used to do this, QF31 used to leave Sydney late in the evening and arrive lunch time. One flight, think it was QF10 to Melbourne used to leave London at Lunch time. So there were 3 a/c on the ground most of the day. Qantas still has 2 slot pairs, not sure what time, but no doubt they could trade slots to get better times if they wanted to.

 

[CaviAck]

Part of the problem there would surely be available slots at LHR? Also, the current arrival well before business hours allows a full first day in London - possibly an advantage that the alternate timing doesn't enjoy.



If the JFK tag flight is the only reason why QF have two A380s and one 744 sitting at LAX for around 18 hours every day, there is something seriously wrong here. Why not station a 763 or 332 at LAX for the tag flight and retime the 380/744 routes for higher utilisation?

Would make some sense for the 747 tag flight so that it could be rotated with QF16 or QF108 once at LAX to rotate aircraft around for maintenance. That and didn't someone say cargo and marketing were points for the flight? A nice big jet sitting in NYC with a red tail.

 

[IGetAround]

A few points:
1) Morning Au-LAX and Overnight LAX-Au are the most commercially attractive schedules. V Australia attempted the daylight LAX-Au schedule but subsequently moved it to a night-time schedule; all carriers on the route have broadly the same timings.
2) Any reduction in turnaround in the US may simply result in the aircraft spending longer on the ground in Australia. The only way around this would be to operate a night-time SYD-LHR and MEL-LHR flight (which is apparently detrimental to yields).
3) The reason why QF11 and QF12 do not connection with the LAX-JFK shuttle is that the LAX-JFK shuttle originates out of SYD; by offsetting the QF11/QF12 timings from QF107/108, QF can provide two (albeit similar) timings on the SYD-LAX-SYD route.

 

[Mattg]

Even if Qantas wanted to continue having 3 flights meet the JFK flight, that doesn't have to include QF12. I understand your comparison with Virgin, but that was one flight per day. With a morning departure of QF12, that still leaves 3 evening departures, including another one to Sydney. And by arriving in SYD in the late afternoon, it could then operate QF1 to LHR from SYD that evening. This effectively saves one day of ground time. The QF2 and QF11 schedules wouldn't even need to change as QF93 (which arrives in LAX earlier than QF11) could do the daytime QF12 return and QF11 could return in the evening as QF94.

I understand that the lunchtime arrival into LHR might not suit everyone, but the early morning doesn't necessarily either. And if people must have an early arrival, I'm sure they could get it with a QF codeshare on EK metal.

It is also worth considering the possible impact on the SYD-DXB and DXB-LHR flights (as separate legs). This would mean an early morning arrival into DXB (as opposed to a horrible 1am-ish arrival) and a morning departure from DXB, rather than a 2am departure which I don't think anyone prefers!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Aren't the LAX flights all deliberately late at night because it reduces fuel burn or something like that?

I would have thought their departure time would have had something to do with their arrival time?

 

[Robbi]

I would have thought their departure time would have had something to do with their arrival time?

I believe that QF flights to/from DFW are scheduled to leave at particular times of day to maximise the fuel in their tanks (cool fuel) and optimise fuel burn due to the effects of air temperature along the way.

I'll try to find the reference.

 

[flychrisfly]

I think the reason morning departures from LAX are not popular with the airlines is that there is no time for connections from the rest of the region. I'd guess that the majority of pax on the US/Oz flights are not terminating in LA and would therefore need to connect to the flight to Oz with sufficient MCT (quite long in LAZ I'd imagine) thereby reducing the attractiveness of the morning departure resulting in light loads.

 

[file51]

QF had for a very long time a day time flight from LAX to SYD, left mid to late morning, arrived SYD
between 9-10pm.

It was my favourite flight as the loadings were always lighter than the overnight flight.

For some reason I think they used the same flight numbers that are now used for DFW (7-8) (I stand to be corrected with this)

 

[serfty]

....

For some reason I think they used the same flight numbers that are now used for DFW (7-8) (I stand to be corrected with this)

I think you may be right about the flight numbers. It soon disappeared after the GFC last decade.

 

[file51]

I just found 4 old boarding passes, QF8 LAX-SYD between 2004 and 2007

 

[ajw373]

Does it have a boarding time on it?