QANTAS forges Emirate tie

[anat0l]

I see this as the death knell for QFi personally. A long, slow, drawn out death. I am of course happy to be proven wrong (until JQ take over the world).

Perhaps, but not many people really cared for QFi anyway (and this is clearly evidenced as VA's international partnership model rather than flying most of these routes by themselves is working well, even if you "scale" for the circumstances).

As it is on AFF, and probably for enough people in Australia, to steal a phrase from The Simpsons, "And I for one would like to welcome our new Middle Eastern EK overlords. I'd like to remind them that we're happy to round up those sitting in Skybed Mk IIs and etc. to sit and enjoy gold-plated demi- and fully-enclosed suites with minibars and showers".


Then, QF can leave JQ to cater for most of the other "kettles", because right now they seem to be doing a good job at that.


Oh and I forgot to mention: is QF playing "hooker" again? QR, EK... either it's going to end up being a failed affair or a harem........ :shock:

 

[smit0847]

Perhaps, but not many people really cared for QFi anyway (and this is clearly evidenced as VA's international partnership model rather than flying most of these routes by themselves is working well, even if you "scale" for the circumstances).

I've never really understood why VA don't take on more 777s to feed EY at AUH. EY have less than half the flights that EK do into Australia (30 per week vs 70 pw). For example, EK does a double (or triple?) daily to MEL whereas EY is only on a single. I know EY is smaller than EK but surely this is a good opportunity for VA to increase their international presence by filling EY's gaps (i.e. BNE the other 4 days per week). They already have that rather pointless SYD-AUH, what, 4 times per week?

If moving flights to DXB solves the EU problem then surely once MH joins OW they should move their Asian hub to KUL. In exchange for MH decreasing their frequencies into AU cities surely QF could pump extra pax and flights into KUL to feed MH services across Asia? They have the networks and a good home hub set up already don't they? One of the problems with SIN as a hub is that they don't have many (any?) onward Asian flights.

I cannot see QF leaving OW, certainly not to join the awful Skyteam. It is one of their proudest achievements. It would have a raft of flow-on problems (would AA have to start flying to SYD and MEL? would NZ be dragged into OW?). As much as most Velocity members would love to see VA join *A they have already indicated they don't plan to join an alliance and if they did it would probably be Skyteam. There is no way VA would join OW if QF left it - the legacy OW partners like BA and AA are the opposite of the kind of partners VA wants!

 

[whatmeworry]

QF will remain in the OW alliance. AB joined OW this year and has a tie up with EY. AB and EY even have a code share to OZ. Ok not a significant one, but on similar lines to the EK and QF proposal.

 

[SeatBackForward]

And QF responds:

---------------------

QANTAS RESPONSE TO MEDIA REPORTS
SYDNEY, 26 July 2012: Qantas today confirmed it is in discussions with a number of airlines about
potential alliances.

These airlines include Emirates, among others.

Strengthening alliance partnerships is one of the four pillars of the Qantas Group's five-year strategy,
announced in August 2011.

At any one time Qantas may be in contact with a wide range of companies about potential
commercial cooperation.

Qantas' policy is not to comment on the nature or status of these discussions. Should Qantas have
a material announcement to make, it would be disclosed to the market in the normal way at the
appropriate time.

 

[cdinoz]

I'm not excited about a QF / EK tie up. I'd heard rumours elsewhere with a QR / QF tie up, which would be better IMHO - with QR rumoured to be being courted by OW as a partner.

Personally hate Dubai as an airport - it's like transiting in an overgrown Coles supermarket, with bodies sleeping on the floors. One would only hope a decent lounge would be provided. Being a regular PE traveller too, Emirates don't offer that seat designation - and the gap from their, quite frankly, average economy service, to their business product being so huge, PE on QF has always filled the gap niceley. Lets hope QF keep their routing to LHR via SIN, and don't switch everything to DXB (shudders).

But does this now open QF to leaving their OW membership, or maintaining this relationship....?

They sort of do well with AA to the US, sort of live with BA to LHR, but have never made anything of the route to HK with CX, and then connections onwards (with a prefernce with codeshare via HK with AF to Europe).

Interesting to see what QF do with MH when they are granted OW membership.... QF back to direct KUL, and onwards to Europe etc? They codeshare with MH already to KUL via SIN...

Or will we see QF eventually pull out of 1-stop jumps to LHR?

Perhaps QF to HKG / SIN / KUL / LAX / DFW and then with OW partners forward, and then QF to DXB and EK onwards? Would remove costs of a UK based crew - they could close down that operation completely, and base some crew here in Oz, and some in the Asian / US ports (with lower wage rates if they could get that past the dinosaur unions).

I suppose EK would give another option to the Eastern States of the US too perhaps?

 

[harvyk]

How about 7 million-odd frequent flyers?

I highly expect that 7 million ( \ 10 million) FFer's would not be enough to actively allow and encourage a competitor to move in on a major route (AU-DXB). Keep in mind that not all of those FFer's actually fly to Europe, and even less would chose to do it on a QF code share, and I know at least one of those QF FFer's are already EK FFers as well, so it stands to reason that the actual number of FFer's which EK stands to gain is significantly less than 7 ( \ 10) million.

Of course, as pure speculation an EK codeshare from say SYD-LAX on a QF service may be an attractive thing for EK (prehaps on QF107 so you can fly around the world entirely on EK and their code shares).

 

[chrisb]

Well the shares are up 11% so I guess the market likes it. That's all that really matters.

 

[mannej]

Interesting to see what QF do with MH when they are granted OW membership.... QF back to direct KUL, and onwards to Europe etc? They codeshare with MH already to KUL via SIN...

AFAIK they currently do not code share, QF offers interlining with MH going via SIN.

 

[yohy?!]

It would be full service unlike Jetstar Asia which is LCC.

Actually the RedQ idea is no-service, ie it is DeadQ and was likely a red herring in the union negotiations

 

[browski]

Being a regular PE traveller too, Emirates don't offer that seat designation - and the gap from their, quite frankly, average economy service, to their business product being so huge, PE on QF has always filled the gap niceley. Lets hope QF keep their routing to LHR via SIN, and don't switch everything to DXB (shudders).

Remember that if QF start to fly to DXB, that does not mean you must fly EK to Europe.

As far as One World is concerned........
People tend to forget that BA also have a few daily flights between DXB-LHR. Premium Economy on those flights as well
Also
Finnair fly DXB-HEL (I think, although I must admit I've never seen a Finnair tail at DXB)
Royal Jordanian fly DXB-Amman (and on to London, Berlin, Munich, Athens, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris Milan, Vienna, Zurich, Rome)
Sri Lankan Airlines fly DXB-Moscow
S7 fly DXB-Novosibirsk (wherever that is)
And if you can bother doing the 75 min drive between DXB and Abu Dhabi (~ $60 taxi), then Air Berlin fly AUH-Berlin and BA fly AUH-LHR

...........and for the Velocity folk, VS fly DXB-LHR.

 

[RickyT84]

Is SYD-HKG not double daily already? (QF87/127 and 88/128)?

Nope. It is currently 11x per week (daily QF127/128 with a mix of A380/744 and QF87/88 on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun). Can hardly compare to CX with 4x daily.

 

[mannej]

Nope. It is currently 11x per week (daily QF127/128 with a mix of A380/744 and QF87/88 on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun). Can hardly compare to CX with 4x daily.

Totally agree. CX does outnumber QF like that in other ports like that as well!

 

[ajw373]

Totally agree. CX does outnumber QF like that in other ports like that as well!

Because they have have a large network BEYOND Hong Kong to take those passengers to. That is the very reason Qantas cannot service the same market that carriers like Cathay, Emirates, Ethiad, Singapore, Thai etc can and why a tie up with an offshore airline is very sensible. So looks like Emirates to Europe, ME and Africa and Malaysian to south asia with Qantas to fly to China and a few other places that can sustain a direct port to port flight.

 

[Voyages]

Some people have commented on the possibility of QF shifting its hub out of SIN. Then what is the point for QF's refurbishment of its First Lounge at SIN?

 

[Andyzx]

So what do we have from QF and EK alliance? my short summary with minimal *comment*

Advantages QF domestic and international
Additional QFd sales feeding into international flights
Better QFi access to Europe / UK with a virtual network
Payment for those connections into the network vs losing them as they currently do, outside of some codeshare flights.
Cheaper fuel from source DBX
Access to EK / Europe flyers connecting to Oceania
Release of aircraft for redistribution or retirement, reduction in QFi capital base
Ability to increase frequency for inter / intra Asia access from more departure points
Ability to change / rationalise aircraft type, e.g. add 777’s *pot smoking* :mrgreen:

Advantages EK
Access to a strong economy and feeding into slower Europe and vice versa when it happens
Feeder from non capital city areas
Strong frequent flyer program 10m members *less a few shoppers*
Additional connections within Oceania
Potential to join OW alliance, QF sponsorship
Ability to rationalise routes SYD-BKK

Advantages customers
Better connections to Europe, UK, Middle East, Africa
Additional international flights times
Quality of service from EK flights 5* airline, especially of F service
Access lounges in DBX
More reward earning and burning opportunities
Ability to connect to BA (and others) in DBX

Disadvantages QF
Sharing customers and reduced margin
Potential OW implications at least in sprit
Potential BA alliance issues
Y+ vs. no Y+ seats. Y+ seems to be profitable for QFi

Disadvantages EK
Potential to lose some customers to QF

Disadvantages customers including Aust Can’t Can’t Can’t (ACCC) issues
Loss of potential competition on routes, NZ, BKK, Europe, SIN
Loss of connections to OW alliance members in BKK and HKG
Higher fares
Partial or complete loss of QFi F class or US only remaining
Partial or complete loss of QFi to J* Asia and Red Roo *now there is a thought* **smoking**:shock:

OneWorld has been well summarised

*please consider the virtual environment before quoting this message, only quote specific sections if you wish to do so*

 

[Danger]

Qantas confirms Emirates talks, shares buoyed

Qantas on to a winner with Emirates

 

[JohnPhelan]

I highly doubt EK will join the fold, perhaps its a sign that QF will depart OW, perhaps setup something with EK directly? The missing piece in that puzzle is who will partner in the Americas?

There is no way in the wide world that QF will be leaving oneworld. Full stop. This is the problem with the internet - people post these bizarre ideas and others start to think there may be something to them!

 

[whatmeworry]

Remember that if QF start to fly to DXB, that does not mean you must fly EK to Europe.

As far as One World is concerned........
People tend to forget that BA also have a few daily flights between DXB-LHR. Premium Economy on those flights as well
Also
Finnair fly DXB-HEL (I think, although I must admit I've never seen a Finnair tail at DXB)
Royal Jordanian fly DXB-Amman (and on to London, Berlin, Munich, Athens, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris Milan, Vienna, Zurich, Rome)
Sri Lankan Airlines fly DXB-Moscow
S7 fly DXB-Novosibirsk (wherever that is)
And if you can bother doing the 75 min drive between DXB and Abu Dhabi (~ $60 taxi), then Air Berlin fly AUH-Berlin and BA fly AUH-LHR

...........and for the Velocity folk, VS fly DXB-LHR.

Makes you wonder why QF have not used DXB earlier?

 

[samh004]

As others have intimated, Oneworlds repsonse to this would be interesting. They arleady have CX, JL and QF as airlines in the Asian region, with potentially MH joining soon. Surely they will begin eating into each others bottom line. I highly doubt EK will join the fold, perhaps its a sign that QF will depart OW, perhaps setup something with EK directly? The missing piece in that puzzle is who will partner in the Americas?

Don’t scare me!

Whilst I can see the advantage of going through DXB to get to GLA/EDI etc I can also see huge disadvantages if the new tie went ahead and caused QF to leave OW. The relationship between QF/BA/AA has been a large part of my reason to remain a loyal QFF and I hope it continues.

I don’t have anything to do with the other two at this stage, but OW is the reason I’m sticking with QF. They can kiss my membership goodbye if they left the alliance. Not that I’m a huge important member to them, but I’m sure there’d be many others that wouldn’t see the value any more.

I realise they’re up against tough times, but leaving the alliance is a short term gain, and a long term fail.

 

[ajw373]

Makes you wonder why QF have not used DXB earlier?

Because they have no partner to feed into. No point flying to a destination like that if you cannot off load your pax to someone else, and from a pax perspective your better off with the one carrier. Clearly partnerships and code shares change that due to the seamless nature.