Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[dajop]

The fact that Qantas returned to SIN rather than stick with Dubai or move to Doha speaks volumes re where their customer base prefer to transit/connect. And those who want to transit ME still can.

I think there was more at play than just preferences for transiting SIN over DXB or DOH. Of course, not everything is about moving people between Australia and Europe. I think SIN works for QF better than ME as there is much more origin/destination demand (both business and leisure), and that provides more margin than connecting traffic. Also QF have the ability to move passengers from a SIN hub onto a carrier that they do have a significant stake in (i.e. Jetstar Asia). Not to mention I guess there would be more Singaporeans travelling to Australia for tourism than Emirati's and more citizens of each country living in the other (Australia/Singapore) than in Australia UAE).

i.e. Commercially more sensible to have a service based on both connecting and origin/departure traffic than one relying almost entirely on connecting traffic.

 

[antycbr]

I think there was more at play than just preferences for transiting SIN over DXB or DOH. Of course, not everything is about moving people between Australia and Europe. I think SIN works for QF better than ME as there is much more origin/destination demand (both business and leisure), and that provides more margin than connecting traffic. Also QF have the ability to move passengers from a SIN hub onto a carrier that they do have a significant stake in (i.e. Jetstar Asia). Not to mention I guess there would be more Singaporeans travelling to Australia for tourism than Emirati's and more citizens of each country living in the other (Australia/Singapore) than in Australia UAE).

i.e. Commercially more sensible to have a service based on both connecting and origin/departure traffic than one relying almost entirely on connecting traffic.

Singaporeans are also charged a home carrier premium on SQ (just like we are charged a premium on QF) so quite often end up on QF for price reasons if they don't want to fly on Scoot... QF also used to operate a scissor hub consoldiating European traffic in Singapore from Australian cities but with cuts to ADL and PER in particular this doesn't happen to the same extent it used to.

 

[GoldenTouchdown]

As many have said, the power of the CL seem to know no bounds! Once glance at Catherine King's boarding pass (she was behind me in the queue boarding for a recent flight) says it all. Should've thanked her for getting QR to bring the A380s down under!

 

[Himeno]

The other option would be for QR to push for extending of rights to “non-main” centres (ie. not SYD/MEL/BNE/PER) - and tie up QF/VA for “seamless” onward connections. DRW anyone?

There is nothing preventing QR from operating flights to any airport in Australia with International handling facilities, other then SYD, MEL, PER and BNE. There are no rights that need to be extended for that.

 

[justinbrett]

I think there was more at play than just preferences for transiting SIN over DXB or DOH. Of course, not everything is about moving people between Australia and Europe. I think SIN works for QF better than ME as there is much more origin/destination demand (both business and leisure), and that provides more margin than connecting traffic. Also QF have the ability to move passengers from a SIN hub onto a carrier that they do have a significant stake in (i.e. Jetstar Asia). Not to mention I guess there would be more Singaporeans travelling to Australia for tourism than Emirati's and more citizens of each country living in the other (Australia/Singapore) than in Australia UAE).

i.e. Commercially more sensible to have a service based on both connecting and origin/departure traffic than one relying almost entirely on connecting traffic.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. There's no skirting around the fact that DXB was underperforming for QF and pax didn't take to it.

A good article on this topic by UNSW:
He questions whether the Dubai decision a poor one. “Strategically, it was never going to be a long term winning play. But tactically, it may have made sense. Qantas abandoned its long-held and popular Sydney-Singapore-London route in 2013, and ditched an alliance with British Airways, to team up with Emirates,” says Professor Roberts. “We don’t know the benefits that Qantas derived from the Emirates code share, just as we don’t know the leverage that walking away from the Kangaroo route shared with BA gave it with the latter airline. It may have made sense commercially in the short term as a migration strategy to a better position, but customers just didn’t take to it and that was perfectly foreseeable.”

Why has Qantas axed Dubai & returned to the Singapore Kangaroo Route?

www.unsw.edu.au

 

[RooFlyer]

I've flown via DOH on QR to Tehran, Cairo, Tunisia, Istanbul, Sofia, Bakau as well as (yawn) London and Paris.

That's why I'm also looking forward to TK operating or of Australia. OW and SA choices!

There is nothing preventing QR from operating flights to any airport in Australia with International handling facilities, other then SYD, MEL, PER and BNE. There are no rights that need to be extended for that.

They do ADL of course, but I must admit I'll be disappointed if they now didn't add PER or OOL. I'm resigned to the fact that HBA may be a stretch for a direct service . Seasonal HBA-MEL-DOH not that silly though, considering fresh freight.

 

[justinbrett]

Australian govt. should cater for the people here and Qantas use of chairman lounge should now be referred to federal corruption body.

It's the MPs that would go to the corruption body, not QF - assuming you can prove that.

Matt wrote a good article on this.

Free Chairman's Lounge for Politicians: A Conflict of Interest?

In Australia, members of parliament are eligible for complimentary membership of Qantas' exclusive, invitation-only Chairman's Lounge. This comes with the

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Australia is small enough that CEOs of large companies have the PM on speed dial. They don't need a lounge to get access.

 

[RooFlyer]

Australia is small enough that CEOs of large companies have the PM on speed dial. They don't need a lounge to get access.

I'm sure that's right, but all those calls would be logged etc.

A few quiet words to a department head, adviser, caucus- member or even Minister over a nice single malt in the CL would probably be the preferred, and more effective way to go.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm sure that's right, but all those calls would be logged etc.

A few quiet words to a department head, adviser, caucus- member or even Minister over a nice single malt in the CL would probably be the preferred, and more effective way to go.

I thought restaurants in Kingston (Canberra) was the place for that?

What’s with power-broking politicians and Chinese food in Kingston?

Kingston's Chinese restaurants continue to strengthen their reputation as venues for chopstick diplomacy.

www.canberratimes.com.au

Airlines aren't the only people doing this stuff. Unions, other corporations, all sorts. The onus is on the government to set the rules - they damn sure put the APS/ADF on a very tight leash. Just need to make that apply to the elected officials as well.

Reports of QF lobbying seem to always make the media, so it's in no way hidden. I think people are little excited about the CL here, I believe AJ had no fear in calling PMs directly.

 

[RooFlyer]

I thought restaurants in Kingston (Canberra) was the place for that?

Chinese seem to be the preferred venue - but more for internicene plotting, I think.

Reports of QF lobbying seem to always make the media, so it's in no way hidden. I think people are little excited about the CL here, I believe AJ had no fear in calling PMs directly.

Oh, that's a bit naive isn't it? The stuff that's hidden doesn't make the media, by definition!! Lobbying occurs on many levels in many places, and much ?most? is probably hidden. A person doing the lobbying could be much more er, explicit in a private conversation than a call through to the PM.

Yes we focus on the CL here because it's well known here and we love a good conspiracy . But to think there is no lobbying done on the quiet there, or no soft influence on pollies on public servants occurring via access to this exclusive club is I think unsupportable. It's how effective it is in achieving the desired result is unknown.

 

[Shane Mawer]

A terrible decision just like most of the government’s decisions.

 

[justinbrett]

Chinese seem to be the preferred venue - but more for internicene plotting, I think.



Oh, that's a bit naive isn't it? The stuff that's hidden doesn't make the media, by definition!! Lobbying occurs on many levels in many places, and much ?most? is probably hidden. A person doing the lobbying could be much more er, explicit in a private conversation than a call through to the PM.

Yes we focus on the CL here because it's well known here and we love a good conspiracy . But to think there is no lobbying done on the quiet there, or no soft influence on pollies on public servants occurring via access to this exclusive club is I think unsupportable. It's how effective it is in achieving the desired result is unknown.

I'm talking about high level CEO - PM lobbying. Quite hard to hide that, and quite scandalous of the PM to hide it. Quite clearly lobbying occurs at many levels in many locations. CL is still a public place of course.

Yes of course CL is soft power. I'd say the union movement participate in far more lobbying than any corporation does, and it is probably much more hidden.

Anyway this is getting too political and skirting the rules of AFF - long and short of it, nothing illegal with the CL or Beyond lounges, and the onus is on the government to change that if they believe there is a problem.

 

[barbarachampion]

It appears that the free market only applies when it suits Qantas. An appalling airline which I have not used in 10 years.

 

[RooFlyer]

Welcome to AFF @barbarachampion

 

[AviatorPJ]

They do ADL of course, but I must admit I'll be disappointed if they now didn't add PER or OOL. I'm resigned to the fact that HBA may be a stretch for a direct service . Seasonal HBA-MEL-DOH not that silly though, considering fresh freight.

... and imagine all the Golds in the HBA QANTAS Lounge......!..

 

[PineappleSkip]

<pokes head over parapet>
I was disappointed in this decision. I remember how QR came into BNE during that pandemic and I got a seat with them when I couldn’t with any other. Saved my then contract bacon that did.
</head over parapet>

 

[justinbrett]

Doesn't that depend on where you are transiting to? SIN covers Asia very well (all airlines presented here), and some of western Europe (ignoring the Americas here). Source: Flightconnections.com subscription.

View attachment 336874

DOH (just one of the ME3 airports) has this spread (all airlines, but overwhelmingly QR, which makes for excellent transits). Just look at the Europe connectivity!

View attachment 336880




No, 'Australians want' means at least two Australians want ..... NOT 'the majority' as you presented it in a previous post.

Judging by the comments on just this thread, I'm pretty happy saying that. I'm happy to have a robust debate, but only when you rebut what I write, not some other stuff, as has been the case on several threads of late.

I think everyone will breath a sigh of relief if I sign off on this exchange - unless you misrepresent me again.

I imagine DXB beats DOH

 

[dajop]

I also never mentioned airfare pricing or on time departures at all, but as others noted QR is far from competitive pricing wise so if you are cost conscious QR is not the airline for you.

I'd hazard a guess that to Europe, at the moment, the Chinese carriers provide that competitive pricing that enables those who are less fortunate to minimise their expense in travelling there ( and randomly sampling a couple of dates suggests that might be the case). Not that China is necessarily the easiest place to transit, and well, there human rights issues are well recorded (outside of China, anyway), but on the other hand they tend not to bother women (who aren't anti-China activists or suspected spies) with things like intrusive examinations.

The crux of it isn't about competition on price, there's plenty of that, but competition at the higher quality end of the scale.

 

[Pushka]

<pokes head over parapet>
I was disappointed in this decision. I remember how QR came into BNE during that pandemic and I got a seat with them when I couldn’t with any other. Saved my then contract bacon that did.
</head over parapet>

Yep and it was Qatar who took my son over to his future wife in UK in 2020 when no one else would fly here. Strangely the young important women in my life fly qatar regularly.

 

[SeanExile]

For home town discount, try taking QR from Doha to EU or Aussie...
Its usually substantially cheaper to take QR from Abu Dhabi via Doha to the final destination.

With that said comparing Qatar and Singapore is not possible. Heaps stopover in SG or have Sg as a final destination. Qatar, thats definitely not the case, usually less than 20 of us went to immigration.

<redacted>