SQ Tips, Trips and Tales

[prozac]

100% correct - EK miles in front of SQ - just give SQ the treatment they deserve and give them a wide berth - the only sensible course of action.

I'd rather we didn't tell anyone. Just tell 'em all is carp, then we won't have so many problems with redeeming miles.

 

[TomVexille]

I'd rather we didn't tell anyone. Just tell 'em all is carp, then we won't have so many problems with redeeming miles.

Shush you

They'll be on to us soon

 

[Cruiser Elite]

How did you go asking about TPR access on mixed class redemptions, CE?

dec I have some answers for you. Last Monday Dec 12 I flew SQ828 PVG-SIN and met up with RooFlyer in TPR where we enjoyed a Champs before heading out to F section to sit at the bar and say g’day to Mohamed – but I digress.

After Rooey dep on 227 I sought the Manager on Duty in SKL Lounge. I asked Nor if she had a spare 15mins or so as I had several questions to pose to her – no problem at all:

Lounge Access eligibility

1. SQ R and F BP holders are eligible to enjoy TPR before flts and after flts as same day arr access – an unpublished benefit. R and F BP holders may also guest 1 pax into SKL F provided that pax holds a same day dep BP on any *A carrier or MI – I think we were all pretty clear on that.

2. *A F BP holders are permitted entry to SKL F section only – not TPR – and may also guest 1 x pax into SKL F if they hold same day *A dep BP – again I think most of us were pretty clear on that – didn’t you have a query about this recently JohnnyK?

3. SQ pax who have purchased mixed class Revenue tix or booked mixed class Redemption Booking are eligible to enjoy full benefits of the highest class cabin in their booking – ie if you have booked 1 sector F and 1 sector J/Y you are entitled to enjoy full F benefits for entirety of your booking. This includes access to F Lounge / TPR before or after BOTH your sectors – the F sector and the J/Y sector. (Includes MI bookings on one sector also)

Booking mixed class Revenue tix or mixed class Redemption Bookings is not at all uncommon and Senior Lounge Staff know these procedures extremely well and many pax enjoy the full benefits.

dec your problem arose because of the length of stopover in your booking. There is a limit to the information that lounge staff can see on their monitors at entry points to Lounges (this bit I did not really understand) and it was this delay between arr and dep that caused your problem.

Manager informed me there were 2 ways that you could have easily overcome the problem that you encountered – a) At time of check-in in SYD if you had requested staff to notify SKL in SIN OR b) If you had proceeded to SKL entry in SIN on arr and had advised staff there that you had a mixed class booking incl a J sector on MI dep 36hrs later and that you wanted to enjoy TPR prior to dep on your MI J sector then they would have recorded that and there would not have been an issue.

At this point in time the Manager was summoned to some disaster over in T2 J lounge that she had to rush over to attend to so I could not get the final piece of the jigsaw that being ‘What exactly can they see on their monitors – can they not see Bookings in entirety and see full details of the booking’? I will try to get that info first trip in 2017 but I do not have that answer now.

YES this appears to contradict your ‘official’ response from SQ feedback which lists ‘Same day arr access into TPR’ only – but lounge staff are totally over the concept of TPR access for mixed class bookings where 1 sector R/F and 1 sector a lower cabin.

But dec - you are no Robinson Crusoe - Nor informs me there are 2-3 evictions from TPR each week for a variety of reasons

4. I also tried to clarify why they collect the TPR Invitations at entry – response was it is just policy to collect them if sighted – BUT – if not sighted lounge staff will never ask you to hand it over and indeed if you arr into SIN and did not receive TPR Invitation at dep port then lounge staff will readily call down to F check-in area in T3 and request one on your behalf if you desire to have it as a souvenir – also if you hand it over at entry and again would like to keep as a souvenir on exit they will readily hand it back to you.

I hope this helps.

 

[cove]

We overnight in the Crowne Plaza at Changi and we get into TPR going both ways. The Perth leg is business and still it is no issue.

 

[dec540]

3. SQ pax who have purchased mixed class Revenue tix or booked mixed class Redemption Booking are eligible to enjoy full benefits of the highest class cabin in their booking – ie if you have booked 1 sector F and 1 sector J/Y you are entitled to enjoy full F benefits for entirety of your booking. This includes access to F Lounge / TPR before or after BOTH your sectors – the F sector and the J/Y sector. (Includes MI bookings on one sector also)

Booking mixed class Revenue tix or mixed class Redemption Bookings is not at all uncommon and Senior Lounge Staff know these procedures extremely well and many pax enjoy the full benefits.

dec your problem arose because of the length of stopover in your booking. There is a limit to the information that lounge staff can see on their monitors at entry points to Lounges (this bit I did not really understand) and it was this delay between arr and dep that caused your problem.

Manager informed me there were 2 ways that you could have easily overcome the problem that you encountered – a) At time of check-in in SYD if you had requested staff to notify SKL in SIN OR b) If you had proceeded to SKL entry in SIN on arr and had advised staff there that you had a mixed class booking incl a J sector on MI dep 36hrs later and that you wanted to enjoy TPR prior to dep on your MI J sector then they would have recorded that and there would not have been an issue.

At this point in time the Manager was summoned to some disaster over in T2 J lounge that she had to rush over to attend to so I could not get the final piece of the jigsaw that being ‘What exactly can they see on their monitors – can they not see Bookings in entirety and see full details of the booking’? I will try to get that info first trip in 2017 but I do not have that answer now.

YES this appears to contradict your ‘official’ response from SQ feedback which lists ‘Same day arr access into TPR’ only – but lounge staff are totally over the concept of TPR access for mixed class bookings where 1 sector R/F and 1 sector a lower cabin.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for taking time out of your TPR visit for this clarification, CE.

From what I understand, we should've had both same day arrival access from our R SYD-SIN leg and access prior departure on our J SIN-LGK MI leg, given it was the same booking, but mixed class. From what SQ have said, the issue seems to have arose as I provided our R SYD-SIN BP (which would have access for arrival +24hrs) and our J SIN-LGK MI BP, which should have access but the lounge staff either didn't know of the rule or couldn't check due to a system limitation.

It's a bit unrealistic for SQ to expect pax to enquire some 48hours (back in SYD) or 36 hours (on arrival in SIN) beforehand to ensure access. I don't know how the booking system works but my tickets have an ET number, which is 1 digit apart. Does this in itself not indicate both tickets are on the same booking and it's therefore a mixed class booking, with access under point 3? If there was a system limitation to check in the lounge but the pax advises it is a mixed class redemption, you'd think SQ staff would either phone down, or confirm by viewing the booking on my SQ iPhone app.

I am yet to respond to SQ's e-mail contradicting the above and offering the $75 voucher. Originally I was inclined to refuse the voucher if we weren't entitled to lounge access, but if what Nor has advised is correct, then I have mixed feelings. I'm interested to see what other members would do in this situation.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Yes it is what they can actually see on the screen that I did not get to bottom of - clearly if it is one booking I would have thought that would be easy to see - but that Point still confuses me a bit.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's a bit unrealistic for SQ to expect pax to enquire some 48hours (back in SYD) or 36 hours (on arrival in SIN) beforehand to ensure access.

What CE was told partially makes sense, but it seems to be the lounge v official policy (per the email received). If this is a case of the lounge extending an unwritten benefit it might not be unreasonable for the passenger wanting to take advantage of this (very generous) policy have to stake their claim (notify the lounge on arrival).

I wonder if SQ head office will change the content of their email given the new information? Alternatively they might decide to tell the lounge to change their policy.

 

[dec540]

What CE was told partially makes sense, but it seems to be the lounge v official policy (per the email received). If this is a case of the lounge extending an unwritten benefit it might not be unreasonable for the passenger wanting to take advantage of this (very generous) policy have to stake their claim (notify the lounge on arrival).

I wonder if SQ head office will change the content of their email given the new information? Alternatively they might decide to tell the lounge to change their policy.

I find it interesting that you feel this 'benefit' to be 'very generous'. The way I see it, a mixed class redemption only exists because the class is not physically offered on part of the journey. There's no discount for having a mixed class redemption, the cost is still the same as F the whole way, even though some of the booking is in J. Therefore if F seats were offered on my second leg I would've had access with no problems, a far better seat/service and not paid any extra (I'm not complaining, it was a 1hr flight and I was really impressed with MI J). I don't really see it as a generous offering, but more so a good application of common sense, which seems to be so rare in the aviation industry.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I find it interesting that you feel this 'benefit' to be 'very generous'. The way I see it, a mixed class redemption only exists because the class is not physically offered on part of the journey. There's no discount for having a mixed class redemption, the cost is still the same as F the whole way, even though some of the booking is in J. Therefore if F seats were offered on my second leg I would've had access with no problems, a far better seat/service and not paid any extra (I'm not complaining, it was a 1hr flight and I was really impressed with MI J). I don't really see it as a generous offering, but more so a good application of common sense, which seems to be so rare in the aviation industry.

From my perspective it's generous in the sense that SQ might be stand-alone in offering extended lounge access based on the underlying 'price' of the ticket. It's also generous in the sense that it is extended beyond what would be considered a single journey for the purposes of award travel (36 hours later would generally be considered a stopover with either a new ticket and/or a different set of lounge access rights dependent on ticketed cabin after that time).

I don't know if mixed class redemptions can also be used in cases where a class of service is usually available but is sold out... so in a business class SYD-SIN-BKK if the SIN-BKK is sold out in business you can request to fly economy?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

I don't know if mixed class redemptions can also be used in cases where a class of service is usually available but is sold out... so in a business class SYD-SIN-BKK if the SIN-BKK is sold out in business you can request to fly economy?

Yes you can MEL - I once had to scoodaddle to MNL pronto and I could get J Saver Rdpt on the MEL-SIN sector but no J available on SIN-MNL sector - I didn't actually 'request' Y but it was 'offered' so I accepted Y and paid J rate for the booking - there was a no show on the SIN-MNL sector so I did get J on both sectors.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

Hello SQ frequent flyers,

The seat map of my J SIN-PER booking in January shows the aircraft as "Boeing 777-200 (Refitted SR-series)" - is this still the 'regional' business product, or can I expect something better? The layout is shown as 2-2-2 in rows 11-19.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hello SQ frequent flyers,

The seat map of my J SIN-PER booking in January shows the aircraft as "Boeing 777-200 (Refitted SR-series)" - is this still the 'regional' business product, or can I expect something better? The layout is shown as 2-2-2 in rows 11-19.

unfortunately that's still an angled bed configuration. Full flats are in a 1-2-1 configuration.

 

[prozerran]

I find it interesting that you feel this 'benefit' to be 'very generous'. The way I see it, a mixed class redemption only exists because the class is not physically offered on part of the journey. There's no discount for having a mixed class redemption, the cost is still the same as F the whole way, even though some of the booking is in J. Therefore if F seats were offered on my second leg I would've had access with no problems, a far better seat/service and not paid any extra (I'm not complaining, it was a 1hr flight and I was really impressed with MI J). I don't really see it as a generous offering, but more so a good application of common sense, which seems to be so rare in the aviation industry.

My opinion is that the current policy as confirmed by Cruiser Elite is very generous for mixed redemption bookings. I don't know of many other airlines offering mixed class bookings to allow lounge access both before and after both legs. Normally you only get the access prior to the corresponding leg (eg. business lounge prior to business leg, and first lounge prior to first leg). And your point about paying a first point redemption or first paid redemption the whole way is a little skewed, because SQ has taken this into account - with very reasonable increase in points for the mixed leg, eg PER-SIN-LHR one way first redemption with 15% discount cost 97,750. The SIN-LHR first redemption alone is 91,375. SYD-SIN-LHR all first redemption 112,625. I did a dummy search early JAN 2017, Paid booking PER-SIN-LHR one way (business/first) $AUD7450, SIN-LHR first $S9100, SYD-SIN-LHR AUD$8661. Might be a different market pricing as Singapore seems much more expensive than other ex-aus cities.

DEC540: did you show them the complete booking on your phone/print out (they must be able to see this on their screen, or call checkin to see especially if on one booking).

Mel_Traveller: yeh 2-2-2 angled lie flat is not as good as 1-2-1 fully flat for sure, but it is still a reasonable product. Maybe because I am only 173cm, but I don't find it that bad to sleep, not as wide but still a reasonable product for 5 hour flight.

 

[SponsorSFC]

Hello SQ frequent flyers,

The seat map of my J SIN-PER booking in January shows the aircraft as "Boeing 777-200 (Refitted SR-series)" - is this still the 'regional' business product, or can I expect something better? The layout is shown as 2-2-2 in rows 11-19.

It will be the same as the A330 ie very similar to the old VA A330 business.

However in the centre pair you would have direct aisle access and in some respects may be more comfortable.

Having just flown SQ226 on the 1-2-1 772ER I felt like I just wanted to recline to continue watching the movie after being wined and dined but it was only abut 1.5 hours to landing. I didn't want to get the set made into a bed then have to get it unmade for landing as there wasn't that much time.

If I was on the regional config then I could have had it basically flat right up until landing.

The 1-2-1 seat is ridiculously wide (see picture below) so easily made myself comfortable there by lying sideways and tucking my feet up into the cubby. I did need to jam both pillows in on either side to keep me in place as we had a bit of a bumpy ride.

If you had time to actually sleep then the 1-2-1 is clearly superior.

Next flight is on the 2-2-2 772 so happy to check anything out and answer any questions about it.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

unfortunately that's still an angled bed configuration. Full flats are in a 1-2-1 configuration.

It will be the same as the A330 ie very similar to the old VA A330 business.

However in the centre pair you would have direct aisle access and in some respects may be more comfortable.

Thanks for the replies - ah yes, that's what I was expecting, but the 'refitted' label on the seat map made me question things! At least it isn't the 2-3-2 version of the 772 which I saw on seatguru. I've gone for 11D, centre bulkhead at the front.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks for the replies - ah yes, that's what I was expecting, but the 'refitted' label on the seat map made me question things! At least it isn't the 2-3-2 version of the 772 which I saw on seatguru. I've gone for 11D, centre bulkhead at the front.

I think the 'refitted' may indicate the change from 2-3-2 to 2-2-2. But it's a pretty old 'refit'.

11D isn't terrible - 11E on the other hand is one of the worst seats. 12A and K are probably the pick of the bulkheads, affording some privacy and out of the direct sight of the galley/WC area at the front.

I would generally avoid the first row if you want to maximise peace and quiet... row 14 is probably best. 16A/K also ok. Not sure if any of those are available for you.

 

[dec540]

From my perspective it's generous in the sense that SQ might be stand-alone in offering extended lounge access based on the underlying 'price' of the ticket. It's also generous in the sense that it is extended beyond what would be considered a single journey for the purposes of award travel (36 hours later would generally be considered a stopover with either a new ticket and/or a different set of lounge access rights dependent on ticketed cabin after that time).

I don't know if mixed class redemptions can also be used in cases where a class of service is usually available but is sold out... so in a business class SYD-SIN-BKK if the SIN-BKK is sold out in business you can request to fly economy?

I think maybe there's some confusion around when I tried to access the lounge. We checked in for our SIN-LGK flight about 2hrs before departure and then went to the lounge. I'm not suggesting or expecting lounge access for the entire 36 hours, in fact I didn't even know of, or expect arrival access. We just expected access prior to our flight, after checking in.

My opinion is that the current policy as confirmed by Cruiser Elite is very generous for mixed redemption bookings. I don't know of many other airlines offering mixed class bookings to allow lounge access both before and after both legs. Normally you only get the access prior to the corresponding leg (eg. business lounge prior to business leg, and first lounge prior to first leg). And your point about paying a first point redemption or first paid redemption the whole way is a little skewed, because SQ has taken this into account - with very reasonable increase in points for the mixed leg, eg PER-SIN-LHR one way first redemption with 15% discount cost 97,750. The SIN-LHR first redemption alone is 91,375. SYD-SIN-LHR all first redemption 112,625. I did a dummy search early JAN 2017, Paid booking PER-SIN-LHR one way (business/first) $AUD7450, SIN-LHR first $S9100, SYD-SIN-LHR AUD$8661. Might be a different market pricing as Singapore seems much more expensive than other ex-aus cities.

DEC540: did you show them the complete booking on your phone/print out (they must be able to see this on their screen, or call checkin to see especially if on one booking).

I have to disagree with SQ taking this into account. The points cost is exactly the same if you're able to get F on the 1st leg and J on the 2nd, or if you get F on both. It's not like any discount is offered because the second leg is being flown in a lower cabin class.

I didn't show the complete booking on the phone/print out. The lounge agent wasn't refuting that my tickets were on the same booking, I was simply advised that arrival access had expired as it was past 24 hours and that no departure access was available on the second leg because it was in J (i.e. contradicting what CE has been advised).

It's all very confusing and there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule. To be clear, we don't care that we were kicked out, by the time we did some shopping, changed terminals etc. we only had another 20-30 minutes in the standard F lounge before departure anyway. The reason for the follow up is to try and help other AFF members plan their travel. I know many of us will book specifically to allow a stopover in TPR, so let's try and make sure access will be provided.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

dec540... no confusion about time... appreciate you were trying to access just before the J class flight. My point was that if you accept the lounge staff explanation, this is generous policy... just about any other airline would have deemed >24 hours as a stopover, and as such the onward flight is now separated from any inbound/connecting rules and lounge access is determined solely on the next (J class) segment.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

I disagree with you MEL - and I totally disagree that SQ policy is generous - I deem it reasonable - generous if you compare it to other less passenger friendly airlines/policies but it is SQ and SQ is what SQ is.

It is unequivocal that mixed class redemption bookings are available on SQ and are priced at highest cabin rates on the booking - unequivocal. ALL benefits that are applicable to the highest cabin then apply to ALL sectors on that booking as that booking has been paid at highest cabin rate - lounge access, luggage entitlements etc. Also unequivocal that stopovers can be added to mixed class rdpts either free or paid depending on booking. Lounge staff are totally aware of the available benefits to pax on mixed class bookings.

I just cannot fathom this particular case but will try to get a clearer explanation when I can.

 

[dec540]

dec540... no confusion about time... appreciate you were trying to access just before the J class flight. My point was that if you accept the lounge staff explanation, this is generous policy... just about any other airline would have deemed >24 hours as a stopover, and as such the onward flight is now separated from any inbound/connecting rules and lounge access is determined solely on the next (J class) segment.

I don't think there's any question about the length of the stopover being separated from the inbound / connecting flight rules. We weren't trying to gain access on the basis that we had arrived on a Suites flight, we were trying to gain access based on second segment. The issue is around the treatement of that segment when it's in a different class to the overall booking, purely due to operational constraints.

I find it easier to think about the overarching theme of this discussion by using the example of luggage. F and J have different luggage allowances. So if I make a single booking, and pay F rates, but one or more of my sectors is in J due to operational reasons (no physical F product on some legs), what luggage allowance should be provided? I think most would agree that the luggage allowance should be based on the F quota, not F for some legs and J for others. Imagine the airline charging excess baggage fees on 1 or 2 sectors, just because they don't have an F product on that specific plane.

It's essentially the same principal, you've paid for a product for your whole journey, but there are physical limitations to offering part of that product for a portion of your journey. Should the other aspects of that product be revoked as a result, or should the remaining aspects of the product be provided where possible?

Having said that, I do think arrival access for 24 hours and other aspects of their policies are very generous.