Terrorist attacks in Paris

[TheRealTMA]

This is the inevitable consequence of cultural relativism and open borders lunacy. We must never forget that Australia's most idiotic senator, Sarah Hanson-Young, used taxpayer dollars to go to the Mediterranean to actively assist the people-smugglers who brought unidentifiable masses from militant zones despite ISIS warnings that they were sending terrorists into Europe disguised as "refugees".

Hanson-Young and the EU elites like Merkel and Juncker have blood on their hands.

Somehow I don't think this is the time nor forum for posting simplistic right-wing solutions to complex issues. Just as it's appalling that one of the unrepresentative swill in the Senate frothing to the media that the problem in Paris was that they have restricted gun laws for the population. ( Didn't I just violate rule one with that statement?)

 

[esseeeayeenn]

If this wasn't the travel news forum I might engage with some of the comments above.

I might point out that these problems have many causes.
The colonisation of the middle east.
The post-colonial arbitrary division of the middle east into states with artificial borders by Britain and France.
Borders determined to ensure the supply of oil to the west, not the interests of local populations.
A century of foreign policy driven by strategic interests in oil supply above all else.
Support for a regime almost indistinguishable from Daesh in Saudi Arabia.
Support for a despotic emperor in Persia for so long that it converted nationalism into islamism, and turned a modern, pluralist nation into an authoritarian theocracy.
Support for an apartheid regime which has pursued a genocidal agenda against Palestinians and created massive hatred of the west.
Support that has directly led to the creation of the terrorist group Hamas as Palestinians lost confidence in peaceful negotiations.
Support for the mujahadeen in Afghanistan simply because they opposed Russia - giving them money and arms which transformed them into the Taliban.
Invasion of Kuwait - one of the aforementioned artifically created states - to maintain control of its oil under a feeble human rights pretext.
Invasion of Iraq to extend western access to oil - on the basis of completely false allegations about weapons of mass destruction and a nuclear weapons program.
Installation of a sectarian puppet leader in Iraq who persecuted the sunni population and drove them into the arms of Al Qaeda and Daesh.
Inaction in the face of Assad's criminal attacks on his own population in Syria.
Creation of failed states in Iraq and Syria (and Afghanistan) which created the circumstances for the rise of Daesh and its transformation into a putative quasi-state.

I might suggest that these historical events were more responsible for the current chaos than a trip to Europe by a senator from Australia.
I could deconstruct the ridiculous conflation of "cultural relativism" and "open borders".
I might even point out that compassion and prudence are not mutually exclusive.
Finally, I could point out that such commentators are doing Daesh's work.
Daesh wants to eliminate the "grey spaces" in which muslims and non-muslims coexist.
They need a world as black and white as their horrid flag.
And those who seek to demonise muslims or refugees are giving them a helping hand.
Those who exhort us to abandon compassion seek to remake us in the image of the terrorists.

I might proudly proclaim that my love for Paris and for France make me more determined not to abandon French ideals.
Liberté, égalité, fraternité.
Ideals which are antithetical to racism and exclusion.
Ideals which are what make us better than the terrorists.

But this is the travel news forum, and it would be inappropriate for any of us to try to score political points here.
So I will save those comments which I might otherwise have made for a more appropriate forum.

 

[Isochronous]

Somehow I don't think this is the time nor forum for posting simplistic right-wing solutions to complex issues. Just as it's appalling that one of the unrepresentative swill in the Senate frothing to the media that the problem in Paris was that they have restricted gun laws for the population. ( Didn't I just violate rule one with that statement?)

The Senator has a point though - the attempted attack on the Texas festival failed because people were armed. The dominance of the media by bed-wetting gun-haters is appalling.

But of course the left will continue to bury their heads in the sand. How many innocents have to die before the Left admit they were wrong?

 

[TheRealTMA]

The Senator has a point though - the attempted attack on the Texas festival failed because people were armed. The dominance of the media by bed-wetting gun-haters is appalling.

But of course the left will continue to bury their heads in the sand. How many innocents have to die before the Left admit they were wrong?

I had not intended to post further, but just some more left wing propaganda...

"Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2001 to 2013, 406,496 people died by firearms on U.S. soil. (2013 is the most recent year CDC data for deaths by firearms is available.) This data covered all manners of death, including homicide, accident and suicide.

According to the U.S. State Department, the number of U.S. citizens killed overseas as a result of incidents of terrorism from 2001 to 2013 was 350.

In addition, we compiled all terrorism incidents inside the U.S. and found that between 2001 and 2013, there were 3,030 people killed in domestic acts of terrorism.* This brings the total to 3,380."

 

[Ausbt]

While it seems conceivable that one or more firearms-trained individuals carrying Glocks could take out an AK-47 wielding zealot, is it really? The 'bystander affect' is well documented and seems to suggest that concealed or open-carry NRA-types would keep their weapons holstered. What would seem to be required is for a bunch of such individuals to 'team-up' prior to the event happening and all agree to 'go into battle' together if trouble breaks out. Wow, what a great society we could have with even more people armed.

 

[JohnK]

We cannot let these lunatics ruin our lives . Utter cowards they are .

They have ruined lives and continue to do so.

Carrying on with our lives as if nothing has happened and ignoring these problems won't make things better either.

And blaming the west for these problems is just buying into their propaganda. There is no justification in killing for political or religious reasons.

 

[Jousams]

The Senator has a point though - the attempted attack on the Texas festival failed because people were armed. The dominance of the media by bed-wetting gun-haters is appalling.

But of course the left will continue to bury their heads in the sand. How many innocents have to die before the Left admit they were wrong?

US style gun laws are not the answer.

 

[dajop]

Is it just me, or is it a bit "off" and immensely disrespectful that this thread has already denigrated into cheap political pointscoring. The problems are complicated and messy, and simplistic slogans reducing this to either "left wing" or "right wing" type politics, is really disappointing.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Is it just me, or is it a bit "off" and immensely disrespectful that this thread has already denigrated into cheap political pointscoring.

No it's just not you dajop and it's a tad more than disrespectful it's disgraceful!

 

[PaulST]

I might point out that these problems have many causes.
The colonisation of the middle east.
The post-colonial arbitrary division of the middle east into states with artificial borders by Britain and France.
Borders determined to ensure the supply of oil to the west, not the interests of local populations.
A century of foreign policy driven by strategic interests in oil supply above all else.
Support for a regime almost indistinguishable from Daesh in Saudi Arabia.
Support for a despotic emperor in Persia for so long that it converted nationalism into islamism, and turned a modern, pluralist nation into an authoritarian theocracy.
Support for an apartheid regime which has pursued a genocidal agenda against Palestinians and created massive hatred of the west.
Support that has directly led to the creation of the terrorist group Hamas as Palestinians lost confidence in peaceful negotiations.
Support for the mujahadeen in Afghanistan simply because they opposed Russia - giving them money and arms which transformed them into the Taliban.
Invasion of Kuwait - one of the aforementioned artifically created states - to maintain control of its oil under a feeble human rights pretext.
Invasion of Iraq to extend western access to oil - on the basis of completely false allegations about weapons of mass destruction and a nuclear weapons program.
Installation of a sectarian puppet leader in Iraq who persecuted the sunni population and drove them into the arms of Al Qaeda and Daesh.
Inaction in the face of Assad's criminal attacks on his own population in Syria.
Creation of failed states in Iraq and Syria (and Afghanistan) which created the circumstances for the rise of Daesh and its transformation into a putative quasi-state.

Right, so it's all because of the UK and US? The whole shia vs sunni divide isn't a factor? You seem to imply that the entire ME was a utopian society of grassy fields and rivers of chocolate before the US became involved...
Look, I don't deny there's been a lot of monumental stuff ups on behalf of the Brits and Yanks, but the fact that your list doesn't include any reference to the deep seeded problems within ME culture (sunni vs shia being a massive one) is quite telling...

Is it just me, or is it a bit "off" and immensely disrespectful that this thread has already denigrated into cheap political pointscoring. The problems are complicated and messy, and simplistic slogans reducing this to either "left wing" or "right wing" type politics, is really disappointing.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. Your comments remind me of Obama's frustration shortly after the most recent shootings when he said that the US need gun reforms. He went on to say that he'd be accused of politicising the tragedy and making cheap political points. And that's exactly what happened.

 

[marki]

Ah it's the new norm now Oatek so we should accept ...... I think not ! This was all started by politics of letting in swarms of people into the EU with no checks this is very unsafe. The results will be seen for decades and Europe will never be the same. It does not make it any better comparing relatively to other deaths ( starvation) it's extra deaths and every single person is precious.

 

[UP4014]

I'm sympathetic to US gun laws but they do need to reduce the number of weapons in society. Although I am there as a regular visitor I have rarely seen a problem and have travelled widely. I have seen someone draw pistol to wave at someone in the distance to warn them off.

I'm not sure it would work so well here, can you imagine an armed terrorist in a crowed Westfield here, what 300 people draw their own pistols and chaos. That's where their gun culture pays off, as a stetson where man in Moab Utah once said to me, an armed society is a polite society. (but of course it's not always like that)

I would prefer Australia to retain tight control of firearms as we have the lead now and shouldn't give it up. I seem to remember a stat that most shooting injuries are caused by licensed firearm owners themselves and for several years in Victoria that more police were accidentally shot by other police than crims.

 

[Pushka]

The Senator has a point though - the attempted attack on the Texas festival failed because people were armed. The dominance of the media by bed-wetting gun-haters is appalling.

But of course the left will continue to bury their heads in the sand. How many innocents have to die before the Left admit they were wrong?

So if we deem it unnecessary for people to carry arms then we are bed wetters.

I understand several were wearing suicide jackets. How does someone shooting into those jackets make for safety?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Gee shucks, if only there was a country on earth which had no effective gun control and encouraged all (white) people to carry guns so we could see what would happen?

 

[Isochronous]

The U.S. Is not the only country with mass firearms ownership. Finland and Switzerland have higher gun ownership rates, but you don't see those countries suffering mass shootings of any kind.

 

[OATEK]

The U.S. Is not the only country with mass firearms ownership. Finland and Switzerland have higher gun ownership rates, but you don't see those countries suffering mass shootings of any kind.

True, but I understand Switzerland has a very high per capita death by shooting rate.

 

[Pushka]

The U.S. Is not the only country with mass firearms ownership. Finland and Switzerland have higher gun ownership rates, but you don't see those countries suffering mass shootings of any kind.

Thats very true. However for whatever reason in US society - is it more disenfranchised young men; lack of emotional intelligence, advertising or whatever, gun ownership and that society is a bad mix.

 

[amaroo]

Wasn't that long ago the Swiss armed citizens ... now it's only 2,000 odd.

Storage of military-issued ammunition[edit]

Prior to 2007 members of the Swiss Militia were supplied with 50-rounds of ammunition for their military weapon in a sealed ammo box that was regularly audited by the government. This was so that, in the case of an emergency, the militia could respond quickly. However, since 2007 this practice has been discontinued. Only 2,000 specialist militia members (who protect airports and other sites of particular sensitivity) are permitted to keep their military-issued ammunition at home. The rest of the militia get their ammunition from their military armory in the event of an emergency.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]

 

[anat0l]

Some people in this thread are making me sick.

I guess we all have the right to unsubscribe. Exercising that right...

 

[whatmeworry]

The Senator has a point though - the attempted attack on the Texas festival failed because people were armed. The dominance of the media by bed-wetting gun-haters is appalling.

But of course the left will continue to bury their heads in the sand. How many innocents have to die before the Left admit they were wrong?

These guys in Paris had military grade weapons not even available to the general US public.