The totally off-topic thread

[Happy Trails]

the numbers are raw numbers - not adjusted.

the population increases and there are more cars on the road. But the toll stays the same or drops.

i think that shows how effective lower speeds are.

what is not often reported is the significant reduction in the number and severity of (serious) injuries. lower speeds = less serious injuries.

speed does kill. you hit a pedestrian at 60 or you hit them at 30 and it means the difference between life and death. The difference? speed.

And at 30, I'd reckon, you're a good deal less likely to hit them in the first place.

 

[markis10]

Doesn't there need to be an acknowledgement of the increases in medical care which saves the lives of many people who would previously have died in what today would be considered minor collisions?

Ambulance care has gone from scoop and dump to high level care and they now take people to hospital who previously would've died in the car.

Without counting all of these factors it is very easy to ascribe a change to your favoured cause rather than the actual reason which is often many different things which combine to decrease the death count.

So thats what Ambulances do, many Queenslanders think they are free taxis

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Doesn't there need to be an acknowledgement of the increases in medical care which saves the lives of many people who would previously have died in what today would be considered minor collisions?

Ambulance care has gone from scoop and dump to high level care and they now take people to hospital who previously would've died in the car.

Without counting all of these factors it is very easy to ascribe a change to your favoured cause rather than the actual reason which is often many different things which combine to decrease the death count.

there are innocent parties in many road accidents. it's hard to justify the application of a value-for-money test.

your child hit at a school crossing is now alive because the driver was doing 40 instead of 60.

what other acknowledgment needs to be made except to be thankful that e lower speed has saved a life?

 

[Hvr]

there are innocent parties in many road accidents. it's hard to justify the application of a value-for-money test.

your child hit at a school crossing is now alive because the driver was doing 40 instead of 60.

what other acknowledgment needs to be made except to be thankful that e lower speed has saved a life?

There are only two reasons why improvements are made in many areas and road safety is one of them. 'Value for money' is one reason and 'political expediency' is the other.

 

[JohnK]

We have hoon laws that allow crushing of cars, tough P laws etc and our death toll keeps rising.

And death toll will continue to rise.

Read a story on the internet and saw it in newspaper again today where a young girl killed a pedestrian she did not see because she was looking at Google maps on her phone. And then ~5 months later she was caught using the phone again while driving.

She is only 19 and she has just been given a 30 month suspended sentence as the judge thinks that jailing is not appropriate.

I dont care how remorseful one might be but this person has obviously learned nothing. Not only should she never drive a car again she should not be allowed to use a mobile either. I wish there was a way of doing that as that is the minimum penalty that should be imposed.

 

[JessicaTam]

And death toll will continue to rise.

Read a story on the internet and saw it in newspaper again today where a young girl killed a pedestrian she did not see because she was looking at Google maps on her phone. And then ~5 months later she was caught using the phone again while driving.

She is only 19 and she has just been given a 30 month suspended sentence as the judge thinks that jailing is not appropriate.

I dont care how remorseful one might be but this person has obviously learned nothing. Not only should she never drive a car again she should not be allowed to use a mobile either. I wish there was a way of doing that as that is the minimum penalty that should be imposed.

That article has essentially been the catalyst for the current discussion.

BTW the school zone speed limit in SA is 25; 40 is still too high, as ISTR that 30 is the speed where survival is 50/50.

 

[JohnK]

hmmm. does that make it even worse?? :shock:

Why? Perhaps it was wrongly worded.

I do not speed. Sometimes in the process of moving along in traffic I may have gone a few kilometres over the speed limit keeping up with traffic but as soon as I realise on with the brakes and back down below speed limit. Why would that make it worse?

I dont think you need to worry about me as a driver. Worry about the other 99%....

 

[JessicaTam]

Why? Perhaps it was wrongly worded.

I do not speed. Sometimes in the process of moving along in traffic I may have gone a few kilometres over the speed limit keeping up with traffic but as soon as I realise on with the brakes and back down below speed limit. Why would that make it worse?

I dont think you need to worry about me as a driver. Worry about the other 99%....

Unfortunately, that is the attitude of the other 99%. (Who I have to scrape off the road with them/others saying "But s/he was such a good driver").

As I have no idea of your driving skills JohnK, this is not directed at you, just an attitude that is far too prevalent in the GP.

 

[Hvr]

That article has essentially been the catalyst for the current discussion.

BTW the school zone speed limit in SA is 25; 40 is still too high, as ISTR that 30 is the speed where survival is 50/50.

I thought all speed limits in Australia had to end with a zero, i.e. 20, 30 40 etc? A bit too hard to judge the speed when the 5 isn't marked on the speedo.

 

[Shelf]

25 is the speed limit (not sure whether motorcycles are allowed..)

http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/safer_speeds/speed_limits_and_penalties

 

[JessicaTam]

I thought all speed limits in Australia had to end with a zero, i.e. 20, 30 40 etc? A bit too hard to judge the speed when the 5 isn't marked on the speedo.

It's the number between 20 and 30.

The logic was originally that statutory speed limits be x0 and advisory (the yellow signs) be x5. Sort of worked, but sort of hasn't.

 

[Hvr]

Looks like 25 in SA is the only speed limit in Australia that doesn't end in zero.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Why? Perhaps it was wrongly worded.

I do not speed. Sometimes in the process of moving along in traffic I may have gone a few kilometres over the speed limit keeping up with traffic but as soon as I realise on with the brakes and back down below speed limit. Why would that make it worse?

I dont think you need to worry about me as a driver. Worry about the other 99%....

if you don't speed then you won't have a ticket. but you say you have been caught speeding?

my question was this... what's worse... (a) a driver who disagrees with a particular speed limit and thinks they are safe to drive a few kilometers over, or (b) a driver who is supposed to be in control of a vehicle but has absolutely no idea of how fast they are going, doesn't check, and doesn't care?

I'm the first to admit some speed zones (especially temporary speed zones around road works) can be poorly signed and or missing signs (particularly when road works finish). but the rule is simple... if in doubt you continue at the lower speed until you have confirmation of a higher speed. it's that simple.

if there is no sign, then you must travel at the lowest default speed (which now seems to be 40km/hr in Victoria in many residential streets).

 

[anat0l]

if in doubt you continue at the lower speed until you have confirmation of a higher speed. it's that simple.

Or until the traffic behind you starts to beep their horn at your vehicle incessantly.


No, but seriously, you do make a good point.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Or until the traffic behind you starts to beep their horn at your vehicle incessantly.


No, but seriously, you do make a good point.

i can't take any credit... i thought it was a road rule! :shock:

don't get me wrong... I can understand the reasoning behind speed limits... I understand the they are supposedly set with input from road safety experts, police and local councils... but some of them are a little OTT (there are long stretches of malvern road near me in Melbourne where a 24/7 40km/hr zone applies and yet at 2am on a weekday there isn't a soul in sight).

i think artificial limits like that, imposed without regard to the circumstances (and they could have a variable sign), undermine respect for situations when 40km/hr is useful for safety.

should i travel at 40 to protect the vulnerable (children and the elderly)? sure.

should I have to travel at 40 to protect the stupid (drunk or absorbed in their iPhone)? that bugs me.

but hey... I'm not gonna fork out $187 in fines just for the sake of it.

 

[Happy Trails]

25 is the speed limit (not sure whether motorcycles are allowed..)

Road Safety : Speed limits & penalites

Sounds like Nutbush City:
"25 was the speed limit, motorcycle not allowed in it."

 

[JohnK]

if you don't speed then you won't have a ticket. but you say you have been caught speeding?

my question was this... what's worse... (a) a driver who disagrees with a particular speed limit and thinks they are safe to drive a few kilometers over, or (b) a driver who is supposed to be in control of a vehicle but has absolutely no idea of how fast they are going, doesn't check, and doesn't care?

I am not sure what point you are trying to make? Are you trying to lump everyone together?

I have been caught speeding. Big deal. I am a fairly good driver.

If I am driving at ~80 km/h in an 80 zone my eyes are mainly on the road in front so it is quite possible that by the time I check the speedo it could be ~82 km/h or more. It could also be a lot less. Downhills, better stretch of road, uphills. My speed is not going to be constant. And that is not worrying about changes to speed limits on various sections of road.

So I am in absolute control of my car, I do check and I do care but occasionally I am not doing the speed I am doing. No one is perfect. But I am extremely happy with my drving record.

I wish the majority could say the same.

 

[JohnK]

unfortunately discrimination is very easy - even for something that squarely falls within the legislation.

if a company (or accommodation provider etc etc) doesn't want to hire a woman/black/homosexual or catholic all they need to say is that 'candidate x is felt to be a better fit with the company than candidate y'.

Political correctness gone totally wrong.

I should not have to justify to anyone why I did not hire them. You were simply were not good enough is not a good enough excuse.

 

[erkpod]

That article has essentially been the catalyst for the current discussion.

BTW the school zone speed limit in SA is 25; 40 is still too high, as ISTR that 30 is the speed where survival is 50/50.

In most states, the school zone speed limit is limited to those times (thereabouts) that kids are arriving or departing school - ie the start or the end of the school day. SA I believe is different where the school zone applies at any time there is a kid about. This section confirms it (from My Licence - The Driver's Handbook - Speed limits).

While we should "think of the children", when is too far too far - especially when it comes to teenagers?

25km/h speed limits​

• Between school crossing (koala crossing) signs that state when lights flashing.
• Between School Zone signs that state when children present. This applies when a child is in the zone, including outside of school hours, and whenever a child is on the road, footpath, median strip, or even on a bicycle.
• A 'child' means a person less than 18 years of age, and includes a student of any age wearing a school uniform.
• A School Zone is also marked with zig zag lines on the road where practicable, to show that you are approaching a School Zone.
• You must not exceed 25 km/h when passing, in either direction, a school bus that has stopped for the purpose of setting down or picking up children.

 

[erkpod]

Unfortunately, that is the attitude of the other 99%. (Who I have to scrape off the road with them/others saying "But s/he was such a good driver").

One good thing that SA does has is the 40kph limit around stationery emergency vehicles who are working at an incident.