The totally off-topic thread

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How many cars actually meet their fuel consumption claims? I am sure there is a disclaimer somewhere stating buyer beware.

None, but a major issue is that, in recent years, the gap between the real consumption and the test consumption has widened dramatically - for European cars in particular. It was becoming evident that there were some shenanigans going on.
 
Given transport accounts for ~30% of US global warming emissions - I'd say many are rejigging their numbers.
 
Just goes to show one can always find a way to stake a claim that suits to purpose.

I'm reading sources from both Puska and medhead and I can't tell what the common criteria are for determining:
  • What candidates are they counting in the list, e.g. single standing buildings, complexes, whole sites
  • What is being costed, e.g. listed project cost, which can include all of the groundwork, auxiliary services, management, fit out (more expensive for some kinds of buildings compared to others, and nearly nothing for buildings where the purpose was mainly cemented post-construction, e.g. offices, compared to hospitals or airports)... or a subset of those costs, and what are they

Other things arising from this:
  • Gizmodo gives the Gold Coast Hospital as one of the most expensive buildings in the world in the article linked by Pushka. The source of that article was Emporis (link provided) and the article was written in Dec 2014. Follow the link to Emporis, and you can't see Gold Coast Hospital anywhere on the list. Q1 Tower is on there, but that's only about $300M.
  • On that note, Emporis doesn't seem to say how they are stating the cost. If they are just taking the reported total project costs at face value, then there is no temporal adjustment to allow a suitable comparison (especially when it comes to converting foreign currencies).
  • The most expensive building on Emporis' list comes in at $3.9B. There are easily many buildings, or construction projects, which are much more expensive than that, which is why the costing methodology is important. As an example, the fledging-failed Berlin-Brandenberg airport, still under construction, is currently costing EUR 5.4B and rising. I guess if the project ultimately fails, it can't make the list.
  • The latest medical addition to Brisbane, the Lady Cilento Children's Hospital, apparently cost in the region of $1.2B. It isn't in Emporis' list (it may not be top ten, but Emporis' list is longer than that).
  • Wikipedia's list of most expensive buildings (with sources cited) gives Australian Parliament - started construction in 1981 and inaugurated in 1988 - as a cost at time of construction as $1.1B. Even after the drop in the AUD, a rough calculator on the internet still gives the approximate inflation adjusted value as about US$3B (today). Now as I understand it, the Parliament building is at least one big single building, not a complex of disconnected buildings. Why is it not on Emporis' list, even if Emporis didn't decide to inflation-adjust the amount?

This is really confusing!

It reminds me of the campaign that Velocity ran once which said they were the first frequent flyer programme in Australia to allow people to earn points and status credits on award fares. What a lie... even if they were the first airline to stake that exact claim.


In any case, why the big argument about what is right or what not? So a new hospital is going to cost $2.1B. Should it cost that much? Does that include the fit out? Is it supposed to be really souped up and advanced? Those are better questions to ask. $2.1B or not, all that people want to ensure is that they are getting their money's worth.
 
It reminds me of the campaign that Velocity ran once which said they were the first frequent flyer programme in Australia to allow people to earn points and status credits on award fares. What a lie... even if they were the first airline to stake that exact claim.

and they said points would never expire..but they do
 
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..and they said points would never expire..but they do

Well, they aren't the first loyalty programme to make that kind of claim.

Some argue that if you are a bona fide member of the programme, i.e. you are actually using it, then they really don't expire. Just as bona fide bank account users don't realise that bank accounts can be closed due to inactivity, because they usually aren't told this, but they use their accounts anyway so never have a chance to find out.

That goes on the same scorecard as the ISPs claiming before that they offered unlimited internet (well, limited at full speed and unlimited at about dial-up speed).
 
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Given transport accounts for ~30% of US global warming emissions - I'd say many are rejigging their numbers.

Agreed; gaming the system is clearly par for the course everywhere.

However, the European car makers, generally, were being more and more blatant. The spread in fuel consumption (a proxy for emissions) test:real world figures for the Europeans was blowing off the scale compared to other manufacturers such as Japan and the US. Looks to me like a case of the regulators pushing management, who typically in turn pushed technical to unachievable limits, so they 'did what it takes' to get the answer required.

I noticed it very clearly myself when I changed my 2010 Subaru Liberty GT 2.5L turbo last year for a 2014 Audi A4 2.0L turbo (both petrol, both AWD). Both have very similar power & torque, and vehicle dimensions. The consumption I had achieved in the Liberty was around 10-15% greater than claimed; for the Audi it is well north of 30%.

That is not to say that the consumption is excessive - but it is not as good as I expected it to be, even making due allowance for advertising BS. I never expected it to be near the claim, but nor did I expect the deviation I experience. The Audi's consumption is only a little less (in the range 0.5-1.0L/100km) than the Subie (a surprise in itself). The real issue is the outrageous difference between claimed and real-world by Audi (ahem, a member of the VW group), of the two manufacturers.

Admittedly, I could get a little better consumption by leaving idle-stop on, but it is an irritating feature in the generally less stop/start Australian city situation - especially in summer when of course the a/c stops if the engine stops.
 
Health buffs and medicos: what are the best ways to support a good liver / liver function?

I've been recommended:
  • Drink citrus water (I do half a lemon in a mug of hot water)
  • Ensure 8-12 glasses of water per day
  • More vegetables
  • More fibre
  • Less sugar and fried stuff
  • Less alcohol, though I don't drink much at all
  • More exercise
  • Avoid medication

I know milk thistle is useful for milking the liver, but that's a bit hard to get.

Anyway, although I need to or probably should do all of those, seems just like a generic list...

Try a teaspoon of turmeric mixed with milk.

Admittedly, I could get a little better consumption by leaving idle-stop on, but it is an irritating feature in the generally less stop/start Australian city situation - especially in summer when of course the a/c stops if the engine stops.

If the a/c hasn't cooled the car to the right level, the 'stop' won't happen and the engine will keep running (I speak from personal experience!).
 
If the a/c hasn't cooled the car to the right level, the 'stop' won't happen and the engine will keep running (I speak from personal experience!).

That makes a lot of sense! Usually I turn off the idle-stop but one day I forgot and I noticed the a/c did stop - but it was a mild day so the temperature must have been at the right level.
 
Regarding the VW scandal, there is comprehensive analysis of what's been going on, and implications, in this week's The Econmist.
 
In any case, why the big argument about what is right or what not? So a new hospital is going to cost $2.1B. Should it cost that much? Does that include the fit out? Is it supposed to be really souped up and advanced? Those are better questions to ask. $2.1B or not, all that people want to ensure is that they are getting their money's worth.

I'm willing to bet that the Sunshine Coast hospital (currently under construction) will come in over $2.1B mark.

http://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/almost-there-milestone-day-new-kawana-hospital/2623777/#/0

The Getty Centre is another missing from the list. Opened 1997 for a cost of US$1.3B
 
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My issue with the website is comparing one Hospital, with office buildings. If we start to compare to other hospitals then the story changes a fair bit. The political dig being made from that is a distance last place consideration.

Just goes to show one can always find a way to stake a claim that suits to purpose.

I'm reading sources from both Puska and medhead and I can't tell what the common criteria are for determining:
  • What candidates are they counting in the list, e.g. single standing buildings, complexes, whole sites
  • What is being costed, e.g. listed project cost, which can include all of the groundwork, auxiliary services, management, fit out (more expensive for some kinds of buildings compared to others, and nearly nothing for buildings where the purpose was mainly cemented post-construction, e.g. offices, compared to hospitals or airports)... or a subset of those costs, and what are they

Other things arising from this:
  • Gizmodo gives the Gold Coast Hospital as one of the most expensive buildings in the world in the article linked by Pushka. The source of that article was Emporis (link provided) and the article was written in Dec 2014. Follow the link to Emporis, and you can't see Gold Coast Hospital anywhere on the list. Q1 Tower is on there, but that's only about $300M.
  • On that note, Emporis doesn't seem to say how they are stating the cost. If they are just taking the reported total project costs at face value, then there is no temporal adjustment to allow a suitable comparison (especially when it comes to converting foreign currencies).
  • The most expensive building on Emporis' list comes in at $3.9B. There are easily many buildings, or construction projects, which are much more expensive than that, which is why the costing methodology is important. As an example, the fledging-failed Berlin-Brandenberg airport, still under construction, is currently costing EUR 5.4B and rising. I guess if the project ultimately fails, it can't make the list.
  • The latest medical addition to Brisbane, the Lady Cilento Children's Hospital, apparently cost in the region of $1.2B. It isn't in Emporis' list (it may not be top ten, but Emporis' list is longer than that).
  • Wikipedia's list of most expensive buildings (with sources cited) gives Australian Parliament - started construction in 1981 and inaugurated in 1988 - as a cost at time of construction as $1.1B. Even after the drop in the AUD, a rough calculator on the internet still gives the approximate inflation adjusted value as about US$3B (today). Now as I understand it, the Parliament building is at least one big single building, not a complex of disconnected buildings. Why is it not on Emporis' list, even if Emporis didn't decide to inflation-adjust the amount?

This is really confusing!

It reminds me of the campaign that Velocity ran once which said they were the first frequent flyer programme in Australia to allow people to earn points and status credits on award fares. What a lie... even if they were the first airline to stake that exact claim.


In any case, why the big argument about what is right or what not? So a new hospital is going to cost $2.1B. Should it cost that much? Does that include the fit out? Is it supposed to be really souped up and advanced? Those are better questions to ask. $2.1B or not, all that people want to ensure is that they are getting their money's worth.

I'm willing to bet that the Sunshine Coast hospital (currently under construction) will come in over $2.1B mark.

Almost there! Milestone day for new Kawana hospital | Sunshine Coast Daily

The Getty Centre is another missing from the list. Opened 1997 for a cost of US$1.3B
 
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