anat0l
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Posts
- 11,669
I've asked the VA lounge for a bottle of water to take on board and never been declined.
There's a big difference between taking a bottle of water (or even a bottle of water, a sandwich and a chocolate) and twenty beers (or, in another case, two whole bottles of Champagne). Especially since, as you stated, you asked and was granted permission.
Well if it is a hotel lounge, there are always signs saying food and drinks may not be removed. So it is against hotel policy/procedures/T&Cs.
Even then, what is the hotel going to do? Charge your room account? I guess they could blacklist you, i.e. you won't be allowed to stay at that property or that company ever again. Whether or not that represents a loss to the customer is another thing, but as you can see that banning a customer merely gets rid of the problem without actually solving it, i.e. legal recourse or restitution against the customer, or making it known or an example that the practice is not acceptable. Again, this is a case of mostly trust and not really a legal obligation.
Well, yes it is 'legally wrong' and called theft. T&C of lounge entry etc is that all food and beverages are for consumption in the lounge only.
But there are many who think stealing from a lounge is simply their 'right'. They are 'legally' wrong, although few lounge staff would challenge them. Filling a bag with excess alcoholic beverages is not at all acceptable. Many cases this would be caught at security and items confiscated, especially in DXB or boarding international flights where there are 100 ml limits on liquids.
That depends on what is defined as "theft". If you take something that you have not paid a service to take or consume when it is clear that such an obligation to purchase exists, that is clearly theft. For example, if you walked into a cafe and ate a cake without paying for it (whether before, during or after consuming it), that is clearly theft. Whether or not the cafe has enough evidence and time to bring an action against someone for stealing a cake as such, and whether a magistrate would see fit to administer a suitable punishment for the thief, are two wholly other things. Let's not forget we live in a country where judges and so on have no idea about the ramifications and limitations of wrongdoings on an aircraft (and so dole out next to no punishment whatsoever), plus you can kill someone without pleading insanity and still only get 5-8 years.
What rights are granted to a passenger when they are allowed access into a lounge? Yes, they have T&C "responsibilities", but that said the T&Cs represent a contract and like most contracts in life, terms of a contract can be voided expressly if they are inherently illegal or grossly unreasonable. And as you've pointed out, whether or not a company and/or its staff are willing to take the time to gather evidence and bring an action against a customer is another thing.
Let's assume someone tries to walk out of the lounge with said alcohol. Assume that there is no LAG point before the gate, and ignore any rules about how much alcohol you can take on board. The lounge staff stop them and say they cannot take that out of the lounge. What right do they have to do this? What if the passenger challenges them on the legal grounds they have to (a) stop them (remember that in many jurisdictions, impeding someone for a length of time can be construed as deprivation of liberty) and (b) prevent them from taking what they have thought is their right to take (i.e. helping themselves to refreshments provided by the lounge)? Such a passenger may decide to just keep on walking on because you can't hold someone back by grabbing them (that could be construed as assault). That is besides the fact that such staff likely have to leave their posts to deal with those unreasonable ruffians, which means they are temporarily not able to do their other jobs and could put the rest of the operation or their responsibilities at risk.
As one comment on a blog post about those blokes nicking 20 beers said, if an airline raises such an incident (a mere rare person nicks a mere 20 beers) as a major concern, they reckon that the airline has much larger problems at hand than the economic loss due to stolen beer.
In the end, every unreasonable person realises all of these things which nominally grants them a free hand to be unreasonable, and they just don't care about you or anyone else. That is part and parcel of someone who lacks integrity and honour. We need people with these qualities to have a pleasant society that doesn't need rules and laws to the umpteenth degree. But from what I have seen over the last ten or so years, people are just getting more and more... "creative" as to what they can get away with in more stupendous "<expletive> you" attitudes.