What's your Uber experience?

[TheRealTMA]

The same way that Google, Amazon and many others avoid tax. They register in some tax haven, deliver their services over the internet, and only have a minimal presence in Australia.

I'm not happy with the GST arrangements. The passenger pays 10% GST, but I don't get paid. The money goes to Uber in the Netherlands, and they don't pay GST. They also keep 25% of the fare plus GST.

Say the fare is $9. GST is 10%, or 90c. The passenger pays $9.90 - long ride, that - via credit card, which goes off to Uber in the Netherlands. A week later, Uber pays $7.50 into my bank account, but I still have to pay that whole 90c to the ATO, meaning I get $6.40 in hand out of the original $10, and I still have to pay income tax and all my expenses.

Uber does provide a valuable service by connecting passenger and rider and providing an excellent app - trust me, it's far better than anything the taxi companies give their drivers - and a certain amount of support.

But they screw every possible cent out of all parties, don't pay their share of tax, and cut drivers off at their discretion. They have set the game up so they cannot lose.

Agree uber should pay more tax on their 'services'. But you get the .90c back as an input tax credit so it doesn't actually cost you anything more.

 

[moa999]

Skyring, As a former Cabbie,

How does Ubers 25℅ take compare to a regular taxi once you take into account booking, Radi fees etc (presumably if anything Ubers infrastructure cost is less)

 

[OzEire]

If the Uber driver is processing GST on the fare (ie. collecting it for the ATO) then the numbers given up thread dont make sense. Ie:

Customer books Uber for free using the app = Uber $0 received = $0 GST.

Pax incurs ride fare of $9. Uber collects this 90c GST. Pax pays 9.90 and walks away.

Uber keeps its fee for making the service available, etc. 25% of $9 = $2.25 (and should pay company tax on this service delivered in Aus, but I assume they claim the pax-driver matching and billing services "occur" in the Bahamas or some such). Uber also pays Amex, PayPal etc. for each txn. I assume the mapping provider (Google?), marketing, staff, etc are deductible against this "profit".

Driver should receive $9.90 - $2.25 = $7.65 of which $0.90 is passed on to the ATO as GST, pocketing $6.75 before expenses (ie. 75% of the actual $9 ex-GST fare).

Ps. I dont agree that this is fair. Seems from what Skyring wrote that Uber uses another way of calculating it.

 

[Pleb Status]

I had an encounter with the fabled Nissan Micra as my Uber tonight. Realistically, a Corolla/Mazda 3/i30 should be the minimum size that Uber allows in Australia.

It got me home but I would not want to have had alot of luggage/pax with me.

 

[kpc]

We got pulled up by police in Macau yesteday morning....2 minutes after getting into Uber car....apparently Uber is illegal in Macau. They took my details, called a taxi and send us on our way....can't say the same for the poor driver!

 

[Skyring]

Agree uber should pay more tax on their 'services'. But you get the .90c back as an input tax credit so it doesn't actually cost you anything more.

It makes my effective GST rate 14%. Yes, I can claw back a little on my inputs, but at the end of the day, about half what I get from Uber is my own input, and I can't claim back anything from myself. I pay GST on the fare-splitting charge. Who am I going to claim that from? Uber, who have put themselves out of the GST system?

 

[Skyring]

I had an encounter with the fabled Nissan Micra as my Uber tonight. Realistically, a Corolla/Mazda 3/i30 should be the minimum size that Uber allows in Australia.

It got me home but I would not want to have had alot of luggage/pax with me.

It has to have four doors, be less than ten years old, and be roadworthy. A Micra or similar is ridiculous.

I drove a Golf hatch for six months, and that was challenged a few times. I could crank the front seats forward, but the luggage space is fixed and every now and then bags would have to go on laps. I bought a Golf Wagon and that works fine. The extra space in the boot swallows up any problems.

Anything smaller than a Golf or a Corolla or similar is really just causing trouble for the driver. He might be able to finance a lovely new car, but he's also going to collect low ratings from people who had a less than optimum experience, and eventually he'll struggle to stay on the platform.

Besides, I wouldn't want to be putting a couple of thousand kilometres a week on a micro-car week after week.

 

[Cynicor]

Hmm. Can you rent your car from an unrelated entity, Skyring enterprises, who charge ridiculous rates for such a car. Turns out you spend so much on it that you perpetually turn a loss...

 

[Skyring]

If the Uber driver is processing GST on the fare (ie. collecting it for the ATO) then the numbers given up thread dont make sense. Ie:

Customer books Uber for free using the app = Uber $0 received = $0 GST.

Pax incurs ride fare of $9. Uber collects this 90c GST. Pax pays 9.90 and walks away.

Uber keeps its fee for making the service available, etc. 25% of $9 = $2.25 (and should pay company tax on this service delivered in Aus, but I assume they claim the pax-driver matching and billing services "occur" in the Bahamas or some such). Uber also pays Amex, PayPal etc. for each txn. I assume the mapping provider (Google?), marketing, staff, etc are deductible against this "profit".

Driver should receive $9.90 - $2.25 = $7.65 of which $0.90 is passed on to the ATO as GST, pocketing $6.75 before expenses (ie. 75% of the actual $9 ex-GST fare).

Ps. I dont agree that this is fair. Seems from what Skyring wrote that Uber uses another way of calculating it.

I've checked. Here's a direct copy from a pay statement with no incentive payments, so it's all fare. I only worked three days (four hours per day) this particular week before heading off on a trip; normally it's a fair bit higher.

• Trip Earnings AU$314.03
• Fare AU$402.28
• Booking fee and other contributions (deduction) - AU$0.60
• Booking fee and other contributions (payment) + AU$0.60
• Surge + AU$16.44
• Uber Fee AU$104.69

• Incentives & Other Payments AU$0.00

Total Payout

AU$314.03​

The 60c "Booking fee" is ride-splitting for one ride. Uber pays me and takes it back, but I still have to pay GST on it. Only a few cents, but that's not the point. Uber pays no GST at all, and I can't claw back those few cents from Uber any more than the ATO can.

$402.28 fare + $16.44 surge = $418.72 gross. They keep a quarter of that, which is $104.68, leaving me $314.04 nett. I have to pay 1/11th of the total fare (fare + 10% GST), which is $38.06. $314.04 - $38.06 = $275.98. I'm paying Uber's share of the GST.

The only tax that Uber pays in Australia is fringe benefits for a small number of employees - who get worked like dogs, I've got to say - and whatever expenses they incur on their few offices, manned part-time - so they'll be paying a little GST on power, rent, phone charges and so on. Their income from passengers is paid straight to some holding company in the Netherlands, and I think they pay a little tax on two or three nominal employees there.

Hmm. Can you rent your car from an unrelated entity, Skyring enterprises, who charge ridiculous rates for such a car. Turns out you spend so much on it that you perpetually turn a loss...

I could, but I'm not really in it for the money. I wouldn't do it without some return, of course, but I enjoy getting up early in the morning, driving around Canberra for a few hours before the traffic gets thick. So long as I get enough back to pay for the car, whatever is left over is gravy on top of the pension.

TCO for a reasonable car is $250 a week. I make that easily.

But you make a good point. Some drivers have been seduced into leasing a new car, through some scheme Uber has arranged. Nothing up front and they slide behind the wheel of a shiny new Micra. But they are paying well over TCO for such a car, and at the end they have to give it back! Very likely these are the guys trying to live off Uber, and it's a mug's game. These are probably the same guys who are doing their best to create fake surges and who will not make the slightest effort to find a passenger, cancelling five minutes and one second after arrival, so as to pocket the $10.00 cancellation fee.

They have to pay for the car, pay all the associated costs of fuel and maintenance, pay the GST, and still find enough to be able to eat and put a roof over their heads. For a retired guy like me who owns his own home, it's fun. For someone trying to get ahead, raise a family, it's a grind.

Skyring, As a former Cabbie,

How does Ubers 25℅ take compare to a regular taxi once you take into account booking, Radi fees etc (presumably if anything Ubers infrastructure cost is less)

On an hourly basis, it's pretty much the same. In Canberra cabbies get half the meter amount and the owner of the car pays all the fuel and maintenance. Uber fares are about two-thirds of taxi rates.

Either way, it's still pitiful.

But Uber is on a sweet deal. They get 25% of all the fares, they pay zero tax, they have minimal expenses. A few staff here and in the Netherlands, a few token offices, all the work is done through computing power and cellphone data, and you may be sure that they have found the cheapest possible ways to do this.

I find it amusing (read appalling) that uber has surge pricing but Sunday workers get their penalty rates cut by the misnamed fair rights commission.

Chalk and cheese. Uber is playing market forces of supply and demand. Regardless of when it happens, surge pricing is based on number of passengers wanting a ride and number of cars on the road. Wednesday lunchtime or Saturday midnight, it's no difference.

But weekend penalty rates are artificial. Nowadays a Sunday isn't what it used to be. It's just another shopping day. Why should a retail or food worker get paid more for working on one day over another? Is there something special about their working on a Sunday that isn't found on a Tuesday?

 

[puppysparkes]

As per the subject... I've had two drivers that were VERY keen to input their own rating. I would've rated them similarly, but the decided they would do it on my behalf. I support the free market but on the third time .....

 

[Skyring]

As per the subject... I've had two drivers that were VERY keen to input their own rating. I would've rated them similarly, but the decided they would do it on my behalf. I support the free market but on the third time .....

I no longer raise the subject even tangentially. I get a good rating. 4.93 last time I checked.

If I was down where it mattered more, say about the 4.61 level, I might have more interest, but if I was being rated that low, there'd be a good reason, and I'd probably be better off in a different line of work.

I enjoy the work, so I'm naturally feeling positive and I suppose that rubs off. If I didn't, I'd be grumpy and grouchy and tired, and that would impact on the passenger experience. You ever get a driver who's at the end of their twelve hour shift? Their attention isn't entirely on your needs.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I haven't read all this thread (nor am I likely to), but we recently started using Uber. Three trips so far and they've all been very positive. Very short waits each time, good $ rate and friendly drivers.

Why is Uber not in Cairns? I'd be using them often if they were.

 

[puppysparkes]

I no longer raise the subject even tangentially. I get a good rating. 4.93 last time I checked.

If I was down where it mattered more, say about the 4.61 level, I might have more interest, but if I was being rated that low, there'd be a good reason, and I'd probably be better off in a different line of work.

I enjoy the work, so I'm naturally feeling positive and I suppose that rubs off. If I didn't, I'd be grumpy and grouchy and tired, and that would impact on the passenger experience. You ever get a driver who's at the end of their twelve hour shift? Their attention isn't entirely on your needs.

One guy couldn't find me and asked me to walk to him. The other guy seemed very keen to preserve his 5 star rating as a noob. A guy took my phone to input his rating. I was hung over at the time and wanted no beef but reported it subsequently. It's a reflection on the driver, not the company.

 

[turnip666]

Albert Park to Melb airport yesterday...onlymy third use of Uber and my colleagues first.

Driver was handling his phone on the freeway, which was bad enough. We got to the airport and he told us that we must have cancelled the trip and as I could not see anything on my app so we assumed an error, so we paid cash...which was low bit within the quoted range.

Checking the emailed receipt this morning......he registered that we had been dropped off on the freeway at Parkville.....about where he as playing with his phone. He didn't say anything and covered his backside with a story. Surely they must realise that the app records we booked to the airport and realistically did not get dropped off at the side of Citylink?

Our mistake forgiving him cash without a receipt......

 

[TomVexille]

Albert Park to Melb airport yesterday...onlymy third use of Uber and my colleagues first.

Driver was handling his phone on the freeway, which was bad enough. We got to the airport and he told us that we must have cancelled the trip and as I could not see anything on my app so we assumed an error, so we paid cash...which was low bit within the quoted range.

Checking the emailed receipt this morning......he registered that we had been dropped off on the freeway at Parkville.....about where he as playing with his phone. He didn't say anything and covered his backside with a story. Surely they must realise that the app records we booked to the airport and realistically did not get dropped off at the side of Citylink?

Our mistake forgiving him cash without a receipt......

Your only mistake was giving him cash. There's absolutely no need ever as Uber will sort it out. I trust you have reported this to Uber as they should boot the driver for pulling such a stunt.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I'd have refused to pay.

 

[Skyring]

Albert Park to Melb airport yesterday...onlymy third use of Uber and my colleagues first.

Driver was handling his phone on the freeway, which was bad enough. We got to the airport and he told us that we must have cancelled the trip and as I could not see anything on my app so we assumed an error, so we paid cash...which was low bit within the quoted range.

Checking the emailed receipt this morning......he registered that we had been dropped off on the freeway at Parkville.....about where he as playing with his phone. He didn't say anything and covered his backside with a story. Surely they must realise that the app records we booked to the airport and realistically did not get dropped off at the side of Citylink?

Our mistake forgiving him cash without a receipt......

Report him to Uber. You can do that from the "Trip History" section of the app. Explain what happened - as above - and say you don't mind paying the correct fare for the trip to the airport, but being charged twice over by a dishonest driver is not what you expected from Uber.

Doubtless the fellow will have a history of such things. This is not something tried once only.

 

[Limewood]

Xmas last used Uber 4 times in eastern suburbs of Sydney, not one complaint, cheap, modern clean cars/4WD, some drivers talkative others not, happy campers.

Now finally Uber commence in Cairns 1st March, will be using them that week on return from DPS.

 

[dajop]

No more uber for me. I still can't receive receipts via email and customer service do not have the mental capacity to deal with it. They keep on providing the same ineffective response that does not resolve . Do they use computers to respond to customer issues? Uber should offer better for the 25% that they take.

 

[turnip666]

Your only mistake was giving him cash. There's absolutely no need ever as Uber will sort it out. I trust you have reported this to Uber as they should boot the driver for pulling such a stunt.

Havere
Have reported it to Uber. I was a bit lost as when I looked at my app it appeared as if we had never been picked up. Assumed it was an error.

However it was the receipt this morning that shows us getting off on the side of Citylink that made me recall his phone activity and he mistake becamce obvious. That was my colleagues first and maybe last Uber.