Abbott in Government

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

As I've stated before, if I were to pick a party, it would probably be the Democrats.

With that said, there's not a huge amount of Greens policy I disagree with - but the things I do tend to be stuff like, say, nuclear power.

Like it or not, carbon and energy is going to be a topic which exercises the government. Digging up coal to burn is unsustainable and grossly polluting. CSG likewise, though the pollution is more in the extraction than the burning. Nevertheless, burning fossil fuels is a sh*itty thing to do - look at the quality of the atmosphere in South and East Asia.

Alternative energy such as wind and solar seems to be an exercise in uglifying huge stretches of land, with its own toll on wildlife and the environment. Birds and bats get killed by turbines, and solar farms turn the land beneath into desert.

Nuclear fission is far from problematic but it seems to be the cleanest of any reasonable power source. More hydro would be good but we don'y have the rivers for it and it has its own environmental cost.

I'm hoping that we can get nuclear fusion going, but that's still pie in the sky. And, no matter how we power our airconditioners, vehicles, computers and all the rest of our modern conveniences, they still generate heat in manufacture and operation.

It's a global problem and expecting Australia to solve it all is asking a bit much. If every Australian dropped dead tomorrow, rendering our energy needs nil and our carbon footprint zero, there would still be the remaining 99% to worry about.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I think it was the surgery had that result.

"The two remained married."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not saying the marriage should be null and void because the plumbing has changed.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

It's a global problem and expecting Australia to solve it all is asking a bit much. If every Australian dropped dead tomorrow, rendering our energy needs nil and our carbon footprint zero, there would still be the remaining 99% to worry about.

By this rationale there's no argument against a single person littering.

No-one is asking Australia to solve the world's problems. Eventually, however, alternative power sources are going to be a real necessity.

We *could* try to develop and refine alternative energy technologies, then export that technology to the world. We could make energy here so cheap that it's practically free, and use that advantage to attract energy-intensive industry.

But that's way too much like work. Far easier to just swap houses with each other and sell off our dirt.

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Like it or not, carbon and energy is going to be a topic which exercises the government. Digging up coal to burn is unsustainable and grossly polluting. CSG likewise, though the pollution is more in the extraction than the burning. Nevertheless, burning fossil fuels is a sh*itty thing to do - look at the quality of the atmosphere in South and East Asia.

Alternative energy such as wind and solar seems to be an exercise in uglifying huge stretches of land, with its own toll on wildlife and the environment. Birds and bats get killed by turbines, and solar farms turn the land beneath into desert.

Nuclear fission is far from problematic but it seems to be the cleanest of any reasonable power source. More hydro would be good but we don'y have the rivers for it and it has its own environmental cost.

I'm hoping that we can get nuclear fusion going, but that's still pie in the sky. And, no matter how we power our airconditioners, vehicles, computers and all the rest of our modern conveniences, they still generate heat in manufacture and operation.

It's a global problem and expecting Australia to solve it all is asking a bit much. If every Australian dropped dead tomorrow, rendering our energy needs nil and our carbon footprint zero, there would still be the remaining 99% to worry about.

And what is the current Government's policy position on these issues?

 

[Pukka]

I'm inclined to agree. There is more heat than light in these discussions, and what fun there is gets submerged in the unpleasantness.

I love talking politics, but when one is confronted by zealots unable to accept any opinion other than their own or that of their political team, it becomes pointless.

Seems to have calmed down a bit over the last day though, can't think what's changed

Is big Clive home & hosed yet? I think I actually want him to win just for the humour factor I'm sure he'll come out with some outrageous comments which will be entertaining, can't imagine him doing much for his local electorate though.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

"The two remained married."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not saying the marriage should be null and void because the plumbing has changed.

I wasn't talking about the marriage - just the "null and void".

 

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

By this rationale there's no argument against a single person littering.

I like the way that the elephant in the room is disguised or hidden.

Think of one person littering. Not good, certainly. But think of the dumptruck backing up and discharging its load into the river. Is this equivalant to the single cigarette butt floating downstream?

Whenever I hear someone say that the glaciers are melting and the oceans rising and Australia should do this or not do that, I point them towards China, the USA and the other elephants. Happy to act in concert with the big boys, but if they do nothing, our efforts are meaningless.

 

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I like the way that the elephant in the room is disguised or hidden.

Think of one person littering. Not good, certainly. But think of the dumptruck backing up and discharging its load into the river. Is this equivalant to the single cigarette butt floating downstream?

Whenever I hear someone say that the glaciers are melting and the oceans rising and Australia should do this or not do that, I point them towards China, the USA and the other elephants. Happy to act in concert with the big boys, but if they do nothing, our efforts are meaningless.

Yes absolutely and I love the way they always trot out that Australia generates the highest amount of CO2 in the world per person.

Big deal hardly anyone lives here

 

[Alanslegal]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Abbott can't stop the boats, so the next best thing is to stop the numbers

Clamp on boat arrival figures

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The greens % of the vote was abysmal ......new leadership might see them avoid heading down the same exit route as the Democrats.

I think she needs to be a fair bit more honest about her performance.....blaming environmental groups is an act of denial.

Really liking this line....

Wilderness Society national campaign director Lyndon Schneiders urged Senator Milne to use her post-mortem to reflect on the Greens' performance -- and to realise the environment movement did not see the Greens as the only, or even main, political vehicle for achieving its objectives.

"The Greens need to analyse why their performance went backwards," he said."To be blaming the environment movement seems very odd. The environment movement's job is to get the best environmental outcomes. And the best environmental outcomes come when you have got a critical mass of Australian political life supporting those outcomes -- and that is more than 9 per cent.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes absolutely and I love the way they always trot out that Australia generates the highest amount of CO2 in the world per person.

In the developed world. Becauase the rest of the developed world has nuclear power.

Apart from Japan, now, and that will reflect in the stats in due course.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Abbott can't stop the boats, so the next best thing is to stop the numbers

Clamp on boat arrival figures

Yeah. Wrong move. It just makes it look like there's something to hide. Rudd's PNG=Hell solution seems to have had an effect. Not a total stoppage, but a slowing.

 

[james4321]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yeah. Wrong move. It just makes it look like there's something to hide. Rudd's PNG=Hell solution seems to have had an effect. .

To be replaced with the Abbatoir Propoganda weekly bulletin ??? Was very succesful (for a while) in Germany in the 30's apparently !!

Rudd's PNG=Hell solution seems to have had an effect. Not a total stoppage, but a slowing.

Of course .. but the Mad Monk will claim the credit.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I like the way that the elephant in the room is disguised or hidden.

Think of one person littering. Not good, certainly. But think of the dumptruck backing up and discharging its load into the river. Is this equivalant to the single cigarette butt floating downstream?

Whenever I hear someone say that the glaciers are melting and the oceans rising and Australia should do this or not do that, I point them towards China, the USA and the other elephants. Happy to act in concert with the big boys, but if they do nothing, our efforts are meaningless.

Slavery wasn't abolished across the world on the same day.

There are three main reasons it's not meaningless.

1. It's the right thing to do.
2. It's inevitable that it must be done.
3. The sooner we start, the better we are at it. The better we are at it, the more likely other people are to pay us for that.

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Rudd's PNG=Hell solution seems to have had an effect. Not a total stoppage, but a slowing.

Of course .. but the Mad Monk will claim the credit.

Of course he will (on behalf of Howard and the Libs).

It was that type of philosophy (conveniently re-adopted by Rudd in the lead up to the recent) that had slowed the number of boat arrivals to a trickle up to 2007.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Of course .. but the Mad Monk will claim the credit.

You mean like Rudd & Gillard claimed to have saved Australia from the GFC by spending the money that had been accumulated by previous Governments.

In the spirit of proper debate it would be appropriate I believe if people referred to our leaders surnames (or first names) and not a made up name. Others were criticised (appropriately) on this forum for adding an R to the end of Julia's name but it seems that the same standards don't apply on all "sides".

 

[Brisbane Flyer]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Oh to be sooo proper, Krudd is my neighbor, everyone in the 'hood calls him Kevo to his face.

Lets not get too serious

You mean like Rudd & Gillard claimed to have saved Australia from the GFC by spending the money that had been accumulated by previous Governments.

In the spirit of proper debate it would be appropriate I believe if people referred to our leaders surnames (or first names) and not a made up name. Others were criticised (appropriately) on this forum for adding an R to the end of Julia's name but it seems that the same standards don't apply on all "sides".

 

[amaroo]

Looks like Clive is the new member for Fairfax +111 with bugger all left to count.

Probably be a recount however, with the (reported) 50 people watching every move the AEC has done - I'd say the seat is his.

Fisher had to suffer Slipper.....now we have to put up with Clive

AEC update 12:20 today - getting very close

[TABLE="class: results, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: rownorm, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD="align: left"]PALMER, Clive Frederick[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Palmer United Party[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42,290[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50.01[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]+50.01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rownorm, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD="align: left"]O'BRIEN, Ted[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Liberal National Party of Queensland[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42,268[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49.99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]+49.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Of course .. but the Mad Monk will claim the credit.

There would be nothing to claim if the ALP didn't bugger the whole boat thing up!

6 years in power.....only to end up where you started is a failure.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Slavery wasn't abolished across the world on the same day.

There are three main reasons it's not meaningless.

1. It's the right thing to do.
2. It's inevitable that it must be done.
3. The sooner we start, the better we are at it. The better we are at it, the more likely other people are to pay us for that.

Slavery. Look, there you go again. Elephant in the room and you're happy to paint it out of sight instead of acknowledge it.

Of course ending the fossil fuel energy monster is a good thing. But there are three things about it.

First, we are still digging up coal and sending it overseas. Gillard was actually subsidising the coal miners. She was proud that it was a growth industry.

Second, if the oceans are going to rise, our contribution will be a cupful. The way some of the lunatic fringe talk, Abbott is personally responsible for the whole disaster.

If this stuff is going to happen, it's going to happen. It may be that the horse has bolted and closing the door will have no effect in our lifetimes. The smart money would be on dealing with the effect, not the cause, because our contribution is so small. We're at the mercy of that elephant. When it stamps its foot, we tremble, but when we raise a fuss, our tiny yap is drowned out. Remember Copenhagen?