Abbott in Government

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

It's the shareholders who "pay".

Do you think shareholders get any more or less say than union members ?

Shareholders don't have to be share holders. Union members must be union members on many worksites. And that is the difference.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Shareholders don't have to be share holders. Union members must be union members on many worksites. And that is the difference.

Union members don't have to work in a unionised job.

I'd be willing to bet there are a hell of a lot of shareholders who "don't get a say" because that's how their superannuation fund invests.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

This may not be fully on topic about Abbott in government....but
I might be one of those who cannot see the plan, as I am a little confused by the plan on spreading poverty around the world. What is this plan? Who devised it and who is implementing it? How much is it costing? Is it working?

Those who control the money. The illuminati. The committee of 300. The new world order. The plan is to destabilise the global economy. Their plan is working.

I am also confused about Europe falling apart at the seams in a non-financial sense. Are you referring to overpopulation, racial tensions, Government political tensions, high unemployment, the possible break-up of the EU?

Overpopulation is a major factor.

A conservative estimate is there are ~500,000 illegal immigrants in Athens. Most arrive via Turkey. Every year there are more arriving but Athens is not their final destination.

A country the size of Greece cannot sustain that many illegal immigrants. Many rely on crime to survive. Others are taking up the cheap labour jobs in farming, construction etc. Before the recent financial collapse the wages in Greece have been steadily dropping.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Union members don't have to work in a unionised job.

I'd be willing to bet there are a hell of a lot of shareholders who "don't get a say" because that's how their superannuation fund invests.

It's their choice to invest in that super fund.

Many sites require union memberships, especially in the more militant industries like construction. No membership no work. Union members don't have to work in a unionised job but that's irrelevant.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

It's their choice to invest in that super fund.

Many sites require union memberships, especially in the more militant industries like construction. No membership no work. Union members don't have to work in a unionised job but that's irrelevant.

Once again, it's their choice to work in a unionised industry.

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I'd call someone getting paid $700k relocation, particularly including paying the stamp duty on a home purchase, as a rort.

Something doesn't need to be outside of the rules to be a rort. For example, the "airline gold pass" that ex-PMs get is a complete and utter rort, but within the rules of the system.

I would not call it a rort based on the information in the article so we may have to agree to disagree.
There is no comparison of the BHP remuneration payment to the ex-PM "airline gold pass".
You may define the pass as a rort but I do not. There is no element of fraud or cheating about it, unless the ex-PM uses the pass in a way not authorised by the relevant Acts of Parliament i.e. "rorting the system"
A rort to me does have to be an action or thing outside the letter or spirit of whatever rules apply.
People may think that the entitlement is undeserved but this does not make it a rort.

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Those who control the money. The illuminati. The committee of 300. The new world order. The plan is to destabilise the global economy. Their plan is working.



Overpopulation is a major factor.

A conservative estimate is there are ~500,000 illegal immigrants in Athens. Most arrive via Turkey. Every year there are more arriving but Athens is not their final destination.

A country the size of Greece cannot sustain that many illegal immigrants. Many rely on crime to survive. Others are taking up the cheap labour jobs in farming, construction etc. Before the recent financial collapse the wages in Greece have been steadily dropping.

So there is a God of sorts- the "gang of 300" creating, planning and controlling everything?
Maybe he just has the wrong plan.

Are we talking about Greece or Europe falling apart?
Last time I looked there were about 11m people in Greece and a little over 500m in European Union. Can't see 500k people as causing the havoc in Europe the "gang of 300" want to cause. Maybe it is just Greece they are after.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Are we talking about Greece or Europe falling apart?
Last time I looked there were about 11m people in Greece and a little over 500m in European Union. Can't see 500k people as causing the havoc in Europe the "gang of 300" want to cause. Maybe it is just Greece they are after.

Perhaps you are right. Greece falling can also cause the European Union to fall as we have witnessed recently.

Illegal immigrants are a burden throughout the world not just Greece and Europe.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You may have raised other issues, but you did refer to a rort, which is a scam or fraud or misappropriation of money. From the report you quoted I did not see any evidence of this.

Try keeping that one word in context. Simply highlighting the absolute hypocrisy of the Tone Abs supporters around here. I guess it is simply too hard for you to grasp that I wasn't saying it was a rort for either bhp or a union - both incorporated entities.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

There is a difference in spending when a company earns their income from production of a product or service (that no one has to buy) versus spending that relies on subscriptions from others whom in some circumstances, if they want to work, have no choice but to pay.

Morally and ethically anyway. Which is an oxymoron here.

What an absolute load of cough. There are no unionised work forces in Australia any more. Both are incorporated entities. Better cover up your outright hypocrisy is showing. That income of a company is the shareholders not the company. It is also extremely debatable that bhp produces anything. In fact their whole corporate strategy is to not produce.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I seem to recall you didn't place quite as much value on the metric of taxation as a percentage of GDP, to demonstrate how Howard & Costello were amongst the highest taxing Governments of recent memory.

Here's a graph of Government expenditure as a %age of GDP. Note how much higher Howard's expenditure was than Hawk & Keatings, and the spike for Gillard & Rudd came after the GFC.

Here's one of of Government spending in dollars. That's a pretty linear trend.

Here's one of taxation revenue as a %age of GDP. Note how much higher taxing Howard's Government was.

Your sources don't agree with the numbers as put out in the Government's Budget Papers-
2013‑14 Commonwealth Budget - Overview

And according to the dollar value of income the highest is still Rudd/Gillard/Swan.According to %GDP it is Hawke/Keating.

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Try keeping that one word in context. Simply highlighting the absolute hypocrisy of the Tone Abs supporters around here. I guess it is simply too hard for you to grasp that I wasn't saying it was a rort for either bhp or a union - both incorporated entities.

There is no issue with highlighting the hypocrisy of anyone's supporters. Politicians are full of hypocrisies.

There is though a need to be a little circumspect in the examples used and the comparisons made. That way it may be easier to grasp the arguments being made.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Is there just the chance that posts could be made here without contempt?

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I would not call it a rort based on the information in the article so we may have to agree to disagree.

I think we might have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a 'rort'.

I'll just point out that if your definition requires it to fall outside the rules, then people in power can make the most outrageously one-sided and beneficial deals and not be rorting the system, because they have the power to simply changes the rules in their favour.

 

[Rallo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Previous superannuation rules for Federal pollies were within in the rules but they were a rort compared to what those in the real world received , I don't believe that they need to be outside the rules to be considered a rort.

 

[james4321]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The hypocrisy and the lies begin to surface - of course we will see TA rant and rave about this in the same manner in which the Thompson and Slipper matters were made daily headlines wont we ??? (After he has asked Murdoch/Pell what to say of course !!) Ministers claimed costs for wedding trip

 

[Alanslegal]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Abbott minister's attending a private wedding on my $0.02 ....

Abbott ministers claimed shock jock wedding expenses

 

[Hvr]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The hypocrisy and the lies begin to surface - of course we will see TA rant and rave about this in the same manner in which the Thompson and Slipper matters were made daily headlines wont we ??? (After he has asked Murdoch/Pell what to say of course !!) Ministers claimed costs for wedding trip

Actually the Liberal party has a standard play book with regards to their politicians being accused of wrongdoing.

All you have to do is look at how Geoff Shaw is discussed in Victoria, or not as the case may be. And this is in a state where Mr Shaw holds the balance of power and a sitting Liberal premier has already been deposed without any fuss or screams.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes hypocrisy is alive and well.Two years ago they were not ministers.I suppose you are also going to critiscise those ALP ministers who retired at the last election taking study tours in the 3 months before the election on your dime.Fact is all of these matters are judged and if deemed inappropriate the funds may be asked to be paid back.
Craig Thomson-case is nothing to do with parliamentary expenses.
Peter Slipper-there is so much more than electorate expenses.He was my local member and as I have said many times I have not voted Liberal at a Federal election since 1993.
And as for the little snide remarks about Cardinal Pell and PM Abbott-what proof do you have?
Haven't heard any of you complain when another religious leader vetos an ALP candidate for the Senate-
A Senior Islamic Cleric Reportedly Threatened To Withdraw Support For Labor If Unionist Paul Howes Took A Senate Seat | Business Insider Australia

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Once again, it's their choice to work in a unionised industry.

Not to mention it is also illegal to force someone to join a union. I think the mock outrage by the Abs Lovers is laughable. Unfortunately they don't seem to understand saying something happens doesn't make it true, no matter how hard they wish for it.