Abbott in Government

[amaroo]

Pretty hypocritical to not even understand and consult with the board who put in 3 years of work in to the model reforms.

Reviews.....wonder how Ken feels about his tax review being tossed in the bin...

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Lol again property prices!!!!!

I prefer to focus on things that matter, rather than insignificant issues blown out of proportion by ideology, like carbon pricing.

 

[Pukka]

If you define something as a "huge monstrous terrible terrible lie" because of a sound bite from one interview, I've got some bad news for you about the Coalition.

I'm guessing the coalition won't be bad news for me personally

 

[Pukka]

Presumably not enough public money being funnelled into private schools under the old model.

Private schools are good value in Australia compared to the UK, it'd nice that some of my hard earned tax is been spent on something useful like educating my kids.

 

[drsmithy]

Private schools are good value in Australia compared to the UK, it'd nice that some of my hard earned tax is been spent on something useful like educating my kids.

Maybe they don't get as much public subsidisation as they do in Australia, hence the "poorer" value.

 

[Pukka]

Maybe they don't get as much public subsidisation as they do in Australia, hence the "poorer" value.

Correct it's a fair go for all in Australia

Only seems fair though since they're not using the public system but I'm guessing you don't agree

 

[drsmithy]

Correct it's a fair go for all in Australia

But for some a fairer go than others.

Only seems fair though since they're not using the public system but I'm guessing you don't agree

Yes, I do have a problem with my tax dollars subsidising private schools, funnily enough.

 

[Pukka]

But for some a fairer go than others.


Yes, I do have a problem with my tax dollars subsidising private schools, funnily enough.

But what's the difference to your tax dollars subsidising those same kids at a public school. There is no difference at all in real terms other than it makes you feel bad

 

[drsmithy]

But what's the difference to your tax dollars subsidising those same kids at a public school.

Because it means more of my dollars into that public school that any child can benefit from, rather than a private school where only a select few can benefit from.

If the elite, snobs and religious fundies want to quarantine their children off from the rest of us commoners and heathens, then they can bloody well pay for it themselves.

There is no difference at all in real terms other than it makes you feel bad

In that case you shouldn't have a problem with abolishing public funding for private schools and sending your kids to a public school.

 

[Pukka]

Because it means more of my dollars into that public school that any child can benefit from, rather than a private school where only a select few can benefit from.


In that case you shouldn't have a problem with abolishing public funding for private schools and sending your kids to a public school.

My point is that the public school is no worse off because my kids are not there.

Nothing wrong with public schools I went to one but I believe in freedom of choice without penalty.

It's not really any different to me getting some medical treatment done privately, receiving the Medicare fee and paying a bit more for something a little better

 

[drsmithy]

My point is that the public school is no worse off because my kids are not there.

It is, however, worse off because some proportion of tax dollars are not funding it..

Nothing wrong with public schools I went to one but I believe in freedom of choice without penalty.

No-one is suggesting you be penalised for sending your children to a private school. Simply that you not be subsidised by taxpayers for making that choice.

It's not really any different to me getting some medical treatment done privately, receiving the Medicare fee and paying a bit more for something a little better

An analagous situation there would be you paying for private tutoring for your child.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Correct. Posting for the sake of arguing is trolling - what would you call it?

By your logic anyone debating an issue upon which they disagree is trolling.

 

[eastwest101]

A couple of important things about Gonski funding model and some opinion.

1. The Gonski funding currently in place bears no resemblence to the original Gonski model at all
2. You can pretty much garantee that anyone wearing the "I give a Gonski T-shirts" or any random person off the street does not understand the past and present versions of the Gonski funding model - they are merely susceptible to Helen Lovejoy politics 101
3. Political imperatives of the Rudd and Gillard governments no longer apply - the election has been run and lost by the ALP
4. State politicians should know that Federal politicians will keep to their promises until the election result is in, and vice-versa
5. The issue is all conflated with Federalism problems and politics in that the States are expected to fund and deliver education but are reliant on the Federal Government that can collect taxes, which raises the legitimate debate about what tier of government should be accountable for what..
6. Separate and legitimate debates are yet to be fully heard on what the different funding models should be and whether they should be needs based, per head, different or the same for public or private schools and whether they should be "one size fits all" plus many other arguments.
7. Education resources are needed in the classroom for all children - not for public sector empire building/duplication of meaningless bureaucracy or in parish pump day-to-day politics
8. With an ageing population and decreasing tax base - all of these first world systems such as the public health system, education and the entire welfare system will all see debates in the future between politicians and other interested parties as to what is or isn't affordable. All of these big budget items are all tied up in problems of Federal/State areas of overlapping responsibilities.

 

[Pushka]

A couple of important things about Gonski funding model.

1. The Gonski funding currently in place bears no resemblence to the original Gonski model at all
2. You can pretty much garantee that anyone wearing the "I give a Gonski T-shirts" or any random person off the street does not understand the past and present versions of the Gonski funding model
3. Political imperatives of the Rudd and Gillard governments no longer apply - the election has been run and lost by the ALP
4. State politicians should know that Federal politicians will keep to their promises until the election result is in, and vice-versa
5. The issue is all conflated with Federalism problems and politics in that the States are expected to fund and deliver education but are reliant on the Federal Government that can collect taxes, which raises the legitimate debate about what tier of government should be accountable for what..
6. Separate and legitimate debates are yet to be fully heard on what the different funding models should be and whether they should be needs based, per head, different or the same for public or private schools and whether they should be "one size fits all" plus many other arguments.
7. Education resources are needed in the classroom for all children - not for public sector empire building/duplication of meaningless bureaucracy or in parish pump day-to-day politics

Good heavens, way too much common sense there. Are you trolling?

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

By your logic anyone debating an issue upon which they disagree is trolling.

Wrong. Don't know what is served by going over this rubbish again You could even say dredging up posts that took place weeks ago is a form of trolling:!:

But since you want to keep bringing it back up - the OP in question said and I quote "Arguments on this forum are no fun ...." I simply suggested that type of attitude/behaviour has a name and it's called trolling.

Seems the graphic "pot calling the kettle black" has upset you. Why? You didn't hesitate in accusing others of trolling however, it's a different story when it's aimed at you!

 

[Pukka]

It is, however, worse off because some proportion of tax dollars are not funding it..


No-one is suggesting you be penalised for sending your children to a private school. Simply that you not be subsidised by taxpayers for making that choice.


An analagous situation there would be you paying for private tutoring for your child.

Well the public school needs less dollars because it has less kids that need to be educated as mine have gone elsewhere.

They're not being subsidised because if I'd sent them to a public school they would have been subsidised there too, everyone's entitled to an education

Private tutoring is not analogous at all. That's paying for extra hours of education over and above the norm.

Choosing to go and see a bulk billing doctor or someone who charges a gap fee is a better example. Sometimes the bulk billing doctor is excellent but the doctor that charges a gap can use that money to invest in better equipment which can help achieve a better outcome in some cases

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Wrong. Don't know what is served by going over this rubbish again You could even say dredging up posts that took place weeks ago is a form of trolling:!:

I didn't "dredge" up your post to make any comment on its content (hence the reason I have not). I did it to demonstrate the incorrectness of the assertion that I have been the only person to accuse others of trolling and that I have done it frequently.

Seems the graphic "pot calling the kettle black" has upset you.

No, trivial ad hominems are not something I find "upsetting".

But if you're going to accuse someone of acting in a certain way, try not to get too precious when they point out where you're acting in exactly the same way.

You didn't hesitate in accusing others of trolling however, it's a different story when it's aimed at you!

"Didn't hesitate" ? What would you call "hesitating" ? In a political discussion thread 166 pages long, full of absurd claims, assumptions, hearsay and outright falsehoods, I have once posited the idea that someone was trolling because they repeatedly asserted neither knowledge nor inferred understanding of a quite easily understood phrase commonly used in political media.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I didn't "dredge" up your post to make any comment on its content (hence the reason I have not). I did it to refute the assertions that I have been the only person to accuse others of trolling and that I have done it frequently.

Yes, you did. Who made those assertions - wasn't me.

, trivial ad hominems are not something I find "upsetting".

Doesn't look like it

if you're going to accuse someone of acting in a certain way, try not to get too precious when they point out where you're acting in exactly the same way.

Who are you posting about now?

Didn't hesitate" ? What would you call "hesitating" ? In a political discussion thread 166 pages long, full of absurd claims, assumptions, hearsay and outright falsehoods, I have once posited the idea that someone was trolling because they repeatedly asserted neither knowledge nor inferred understanding of a quite easily understood phrase commonly used in political media.

You posted it and have kept the subject bubbling along. However, I agree and we should move on....

 

[Moody]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Plenty of evidence up thread.....no need to flood the thread with more examples of 3rd rate ABC journalism and hypocritical rubbish. The ABC is good for weather reports and that's about it......I hear it's not a bad place to work if you're a man and want to get paid more than the women working next to you. But I digress.

BTW it's your coalition/Gov unless you've left Oz and won't be coming back

If you could point out or quote your "evidence" it would give it some legitimacy, otherwise it has none I'm afraid. And just for a laugh .... who do you think gives the most balanced reporting of national issues?

Sorry - haven't seen the ABC salary info because it's none of my business. Feel free to quote from the article if you have no qualms about breaching people's privacy, but I'm not going to look for it.

And finally - you mistake me for a DFO. It is most definitely not "my" government ...... just the one currently in power in my current country of residence.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

If you could point out or quote your "evidence" it would give it some legitimacy, otherwise it has none I'm afraid. And just for a laugh .... who do you think gives the most balanced reporting of national issues?

Sorry - haven't seen the ABC salary info because it's none of my business. Feel free to quote from the article if you have no qualms about breaching people's privacy, but I'm not going to look for it.

And finally - you mistake me for a DFO. It is most definitely not "my" government ...... just the one currently in power in my current country of residence.

Everyone knows the ABC is weak when it comes to un-bias reporting....stick around a bit more and you'll see it yourself.

Your Government will fix it by appointing decent people to the ABC board