Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[lovetravellingoz]

.How long was Victoria not accepting anyone from OS?

For too long.

 

[justinbrett]

Weren't most of those NSW cases July - Sept. 2020 OS cases?
The fact that NSW was carrying most of Australia's load in getting Aussies back home there is nothing to be frightened or ashamed of in those figures.How long was Victoria not accepting anyone from OS?

No those were all local cases, I pulled them off covidlive and dumped into excel.

It seems many others are forgetting there was a life before covid zero hit NSW! I recall this period very clearly as I was trying to see family in QLD and the border was closed for four months.

 

[antycbr]

A more creative option would be making NSW a covid-suppression State (always having cases its trying to manage) and letting the other States manage their State borders to NSW. Then NSW could run the risk of say taking vaccinated (Edit: "stranded") Aussies/PRs/families under a hotel quarantine system - potentially no caps. (Edit: sorry no international departures yet)

This is not palatable as it cuts the federation up and families and businesses cant operate across state borders for many months, destroys border communities and still runs the risk of leakage into other states from essential services like road freight (much larger than international air freight in driver numbers)

Furthermore if NSW is cut off from the rest of the country, time to say no more non-NSW destination international arrivals. If you won't let us out of NSW we aren't going to do this without a tradeoff, i.e. let us out of Australia. No dice otherwise.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

No those were all local cases, I pulled them off covidlive and dumped into excel.

It seems many others are forgetting there was a life before covid zero hit NSW! I recall this period very clearly as I was trying to see family in QLD and the border was closed for four months.

You are right about the local cases, but Delta is clearly faster.

My feeling (not going to spreadsheet it, so it could be mathematically wrong) is that in the last week when Sydney lockdown was in "full" effect the average number (ie infectious while in the community) is probably 30-50% higher than any period in mid 2020 you were referring to (which would also be equivalent being local cases under no lockdown). And that's with the lockdown.

I think we all know lockdown isn't sustainable, so where next?

 

[justinbrett]

A more creative option would be making NSW a covid-suppression State (always having cases its trying to manage) and letting the other States manage their State borders to NSW. Then NSW could run the risk of say taking vaccinated (Edit: "stranded") Aussies/PRs/families under a hotel quarantine system - potentially no caps. (Edit: sorry no international departures yet)

Your post was edited and I missed this on my initial reply.

You expect NSW to be cut of from the rest of the country AND not have the freedom to travel overseas AND take all Australians in hotel Quarantine... that is the attitude that many in NSW are absolutely fed up with.

If NSW gets locked out of the rest of the country, I would personally hope that we do turn to the world instead, open up travel and the rest of the country can treat us as if it were a foreign country. Sure, Aussies can come home, no hotel quarantine, but they'll likely be stuck in NSW like the rest of us.

Honestly these state border closures and lockouts are going to be the death of this federation if they don't stop soon.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

This is not palatable as it cuts the federation up and families and businesses cant operate across state borders for many months, destroys border communities and still runs the risk of leakage into other states from essential services like road freight (much larger than international air freight in driver numbers)

Furthermore if NSW is cut off from the rest of the country, time to say no more non-NSW destination international arrivals. If you won't let us out of NSW we aren't going to do this without a tradeoff, i.e. let us out of Australia. No dice otherwise.

The immediate issue is how long does the Sydney lockdown go for, because its probably worse than 50/50 that NSW Health/Government can't get Delta back to zero without going to lockdown for say a total 8 weeks (and for example tightening lockdown from next week).

I agree most won't find it palatable, but the NSW Premier is already thinking further ahead about what if it can't get back to zero. Dropping hints like life won't be the same as before the lockdown; NSW Health Minister have his meanderings; etc etc

Sometimes you got to make the best of a bad situation and that's where Sydney might find itself in 2-6 weeks.

 

[N860CR]

Your post was edited and I missed this on my initial reply.

You expect NSW to be cut of from the rest of the country AND not have the freedom to travel overseas AND take all Australians in hotel Quarantine... that is the attitude that many in NSW are absolutely fed up with.

If NSW gets locked out of the rest of the country, I would personally hope that we do turn to the world instead, open up travel and the rest of the country can treat us as if it were a foreign country. Sure, Aussies can come home, no hotel quarantine, but they'll likely be stuck in NSW like the rest of us.

Honestly these state border closures and lockouts are going to be the death of this federation if they don't stop soon.

Maybe it’s time for the federation to die.

Just watching McClown now and he’s openly said the vaccination percentage would have to be “over 80% - probably well over that” before we learn to live with this virus. And this clown won a landslide election….

 

[antycbr]

The immediate issue is how long does the Sydney lockdown go for, because its probably worse than 50/50 that NSW Health/Government can't get Delta back to zero without going to lockdown for say a total 8 weeks (and for example tightening lockdown from next week).

I agree most won't find it palatable, but the NSW Premier is already thinking further ahead about what if it can't get back to zero. Dropping hints like life won't be the same as before the lockdown; NSW Health Minister have his meanderings; etc etc

Sometimes you got to make the best of a bad situation and that's where Sydney might find itself in 2-6 weeks.

But under no circumstances are we going to accept taking other states HQ guests whilst being locked out of those states AND denied the right ot leave. Gladys will have a total mutiny most likely led by her cabinet, and with a lot of the public supporting them.

 

[drron]

Though departures and arrivals into Australia are the feds responsibility so hard for NSW to allow it's residents out to OS destinations.
As for arrivals she could set up booked HQ as a condition of stepping outside the International terminal.Easy to then select NSW residents.Be a bit messy but possible.
But easier to introduce differential HQ charges.As is for NSW residents but double for elsewhere and needed to be prepaid.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Your post was edited and I missed this on my initial reply.

You expect NSW to be cut of from the rest of the country AND not have the freedom to travel overseas AND take all Australians in hotel Quarantine... that is the attitude that many in NSW are absolutely fed up with.

If NSW gets locked out of the rest of the country, I would personally hope that we do turn to the world instead, open up travel and the rest of the country can treat us as if it were a foreign country. Sure, Aussies can come home, no hotel quarantine, but they'll likely be stuck in NSW like the rest of us.

Honestly these state border closures and lockouts are going to be the death of this federation if they don't stop soon.

Well if National Cabinet don't accept and NSW goes it alone, you don't think NSW won't be cut-off?!?!

Sometimes a person has to make lemonade out of lemons, so if NSW is already cut-off due to say ending lockdown too early for some, it might diversify and just accept more stranded Aussies. That has always been NSW Premier's position - to take as many as possible and only the shackles of National Cabinet has stopped it happening.

The rule about doing international hotel quarantine will be sufficient for most States and Territories to allow immediate transit from hotel quarantine.

Baby steps to get stranded vaccinated Aussies home first - see if its successful. Not saying yet carte blanche as many readers as susceptible to read into others' comments. Hence my edit.

Being allowed to leave will most likely be a whole of country decision - the Federal CMO would have to be satisfied its sustainable from a public health perspective - many variables to think about including covid variants, numbers going in and out.

 

[serfty]

It's been the case since the very beginning that Australia, federally and every state has pursued elimination

Incorrect - the aim at the very beginning was to "Flatten the Curve" - to avoid the overwhelming of hospitals and medical staff. There was no advertised ambition of elimination.

It seemed to me that this was done so effectively that elimination became perceived to be a possibility. Fools gold if there ever was.

 

[antycbr]

Well if National Cabinet don't accept and NSW goes it alone, you don't think NSW won't be cut-off?!?!

Sometimes a person has to make lemonade out of lemons, so if NSW is already cut-off due to say ending lockdown too early for some, it might diversify and just accept more stranded Aussies. That has always been NSW Premier's position - to take as many as possible and only the shackles of National Cabinet has stopped it happening.

The rule about doing international hotel quarantine will be sufficient for most States and Territories to allow immediate transit from hotel quarantine.

Baby steps to get stranded vaccinated Aussies home first - see if its successful. Not saying yet carte blanche as many readers as susceptible to read into others' comments. Hence my edit.

Being allowed to leave will most likely be a whole of country decision - the Federal CMO would have to be satisfied its sustainable from a public health perspective - many variables to think about including covid variants, numbers going in and out.

As a NSW voter, I am absolutely not going to put up with this. We've carried the load for so long, I would prefer our number to be zero.

And your argument about letting people leave applies exactly the same to people coming in.

 

[serfty]

curfew (completely useless)

This is incorrect - what it did was enable checks on anyone of those few who were still out and about after hours - it was quite effective.

 

[antycbr]

This is incorrect - what it did was enable checks on anyone of those few who were still out and about after hours.

Plus it provided a strong deterrent effect on people to visit for dinner or other more nefarious activities; and provided a massive psychological signal that this is serious...

 

[Port Power]

”he’s openly said the vaccination percentage would have to be “over 80% - probably well over that” before we learn to live with this virus.

Isn’t 80% of the population being vaccinated the aim anyway? Most health professionals in this field who I have heard or read comments from, seem to recommend 80%+ for life to return to normal.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

As a NSW voter, I am absolutely not going to put up with this. We've carried the load for so long, I would prefer our number to be zero.

And your argument about letting people leave applies exactly the same to people coming in.

Not sure I understand why you say the argument about leaving (Australia) is the same as people (stranded vaccinated Aussies - potentially no caps - in hotel quarantine) coming in.

So you vote for a longer stricter lockdown to get to zero - that's fine.

 

[justinbrett]

Well if National Cabinet don't accept and NSW goes it alone, you don't think NSW won't be cut-off?!?!

Sometimes a person has to make lemonade out of lemons, so if NSW is already cut-off due to say ending lockdown too early for some, it might diversify and just accept more stranded Aussies. That has always been NSW Premier's position - to take as many as possible and only the shackles of National Cabinet has stopped it happening.

The rule about doing international hotel quarantine will be sufficient for most States and Territories to allow immediate transit from hotel quarantine.

Baby steps to get stranded vaccinated Aussies home first - see if its successful. Not saying yet carte blanche as many readers as susceptible to read into others' comments. Hence my edit.

Being allowed to leave will most likely be a whole of country decision - the Federal CMO would have to be satisfied its sustainable from a public health perspective - many variables to think about including covid variants, numbers going in and out.

I'd prefer to make a Tom Collins, but that's just me...

The point is why would NSW want to assist the other states if they close off to NSW? It's illogical. It's delusional. I don't believe they will.

I think you underestimate the fallout of a national closure to NSW, and the federal government is going to try to keep NSW in the camp - most likely by giving them the things they want like international travel etc. It's of no consequence to the other states if they've already closed the borders.

So you vote for a longer stricter lockdown to get to zero - that's fine.

I don't - the point is if NSW is going to wear the pain of border closures, we aren't going to let other states benefit from it.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I am unwatching this thread - way too depressing for me

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I'd prefer to make a Tom Collins, but that's just me...

The point is why would NSW want to assist the other states if they close off to NSW? It's illogical. It's delusional. I don't believe they will.

I think you underestimate the fallout of a national closure to NSW, and the federal government is going to try to keep NSW in the camp - most likely by giving them the things they want like international travel etc. It's of no consequence to the other states if they've already closed the borders.


I don't - the point is if NSW is going to wear the pain of border closures, we aren't going to let other states benefit from it.

I'm pretty sure I understand the fallout of a closure to NSW.

NSW Treasurer is on record as saying he didn't want a lockdown at all, ask for JobKeeper to be re-raised (he just should have said further financial assistance) [and refused once by Federal Treasurer].

I do wonder how much is real and how much is smoke and mirrors, so I wonder how long NSW can really last (economically) under this lockdown or a stricter lockdown.

I did say in an earlier post NSW wants more assistance or can't continue with lockdown - this might be the major determinant as to whether NSW goes further and longer into a lockdown, as hoped for by other States/Territories.

Oh and the Federal Government won't be giving outbound international travel to anyone anytime soon.....need to see an enhanced/trial quarantine system in action.

 

[Lynda2475]

Weren't most of those NSW cases July - Sept. 2020 OS cases?

Nope they were Crossroads and Thai Rock cases seeded for Victoria