[Conjecture]Qantas to move European base to Berlin (BER)?

[Berlin]

Hmm. Frankfurt is 3 and a half minutes on the ICE if I recall correctly and Hamburg, second biggest city in Germany no less, is 2 hours on the train. Can't really see how Berlin is not connected to the rail network... And a distance like Munich from either FfM or BER you'd rather fly than travel on the train but that's only my personal (in my before-Australia times highly public-transport spoilt) opinion

Sale fares? I already keep some funds ready for this eventuality to not have to experience the first Qantas flight into Berlin in cattle class

 

[medhead]

Hmm. Frankfurt is 3 and a half minutes on the ICE if I recall correctly and Hamburg, second biggest city in Germany no less, is 2 hours on the train. Can't really see how Berlin is not connected to the rail network... And a distance like Munich from either FfM or BER you'd rather fly than travel on the train but that's only my personal (in my before-Australia times highly public-transport spoilt) opinion

Sale fares? I already keep some funds ready for this eventuality to not have to experience the first Qantas flight into Berlin in cattle class

I didn't say it wasn't connected to the network. I said it wasn't very central. There is a big difference.

Koln, hamburg, Brussels, Paris, Stuttgart are readily accessible to FRA. Munich is a shorter train trip from FRA than Berlin. Once one allows time for delayed arrival into FRA, time to transfer, flight time and then time to get from Munich airport to the city, the ICE is a better option.

Of course e) Berlin isn't very central to the high speed train network, like FRA.

 

[ButFli]

How's the freight out of Berlin? I'm thinking a lot of QF's profit out of FRA comes from freight.

I'm also thinking there is more high-fare paying business traffic into FRA than Berlin.

 

[Kefci2000]

How's the freight out of Berlin? I'm thinking a lot of QF's profit out of FRA comes from freight.

I'm also thinking there is more high-fare paying business traffic into FRA than Berlin.

It may be as much to do with the cost of slots at FRAPORT. Once the new extension is done Lufthansa is moving a lot of flights from hubs at Vienna, Munich and Zurich to FRA

 

[ozbeachbabe]

But can see the sense of the Berlin / OW connection

You've only got to look at the recent happenings of QF flying to AA's hub of DFW (& bye bye to SFO) & in the next few weeks the introduction of flights to Lan Chile's hub of SCL (at the expense of EZE) so you'd have to think QF are looking to do the same in Europe. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[openseat]

Isn't part of the malaise of QFi is its LHR centric thinking? Berlin makes sense because of the lack of backtrack, and perhaps a more streamlined HEL type experience (something that neither FRA nor LHR have).

This article from Bloomberg highlights the problem that QF has focussing on old non-growth routes, particularly LHR.

It also has this very interesting quote which may suggest that VA's path may be better:

The thing with airline alliances is that you end up with the partnerships that are possible, not with the ones that you’d want,

 

[gwilli1]

FRA survives at least another 6 months i would say... but i feel that BER will still be in QFi sights in the future.

 

[tyrolean]

No way. Moving to BER would be not a clever move.

1) Lots of revenue comes from Freight, FRA is just an important freight hub.

2) Berlin is nice, but very poor. No industry and lots of public administration. It is the grave of our taxpayers money. Basically no demand for premium traffic. You may google for the debt of the city of Berlin. They are worse than Greece!
The surrounding is very poor as well

3) FRA has the much better connections:
- They have a high speed train link to the most important cities. QF codeshares with them.
- Good Motorway connection in every direction
- Good connections - albeit with different airlines, but QF interlines with LH and offers very competitive fares with them.

There is No way NEVER EVER that QF will fly an 380 to BER. It would be commercially a suicide!
Just look how many overseas destinations Lufthansa flies from BER! (ZERO, ZILCH, NADA!!)
So if QF invests half a day into market research they will never think about BER.

If they think about moving they should either consider MUC (economically interesting, good AB connections but lack of train connection). DUS (economically interesting, real hub of AB, train connection not so good as FRA).

We may thing either about a Jetstar or an AB codeshare flight.
A flight BER-SIN could be interesting (codeshare with AB), but Etihad (the new owner of AB) wants all Asian flights to be routed via Abu Dhabi.

I like Berlin. It is a nice town and changing rapidly. I have some clients in Berlin.

BTW: Who wants to discuss this issue with me in person, may meet me at the world biggest tourism fare in Berlin next month!

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I just got a rumour from a friend of mine who was on European holiday recently and he was speaking to a bunch TXL ATC guys.

This is rumour and l take all these with a handful of salt, lol. Interesting none-the-less what is going around.

Enough said.

Orange star maybe?

btw, rumour came from a German friend of mine who does travel a fair bit...

 

[Norris]

Looking to hit Berlin up in July this year, currently what is the quickest/cheapest way to get there from Melbourne. Iv seen travel times vary between 25 - 35 hours. ~$2.1k OW is preferred

 

[gwilli1]

Looking to hit Berlin up in July this year, currently what is the quickest/cheapest way to get there from Melbourne. Iv seen travel times vary between 25 - 35 hours. ~$2.1k OW is preferred

The best option both in terms of $$$ , no. of stops & flight time from MEL-BER would be with Qatar Airways via Doha

QR031 - Dept MEL 22.25 / Arr DOH 6.10
Layover 1 hr 50mins
QR053 - Dept DOH 8.00 / Arr BER 13.25
Total time is 22 hrs 30 mins

This is a great 1 stop option that would be hard to beat. Qatar on there site are offering OW fares in July from $1694 in Y.

I assume you wouldn't want to fly China Air ? They do have a OW fare for around $1500 , with 3 stops & 29+ hrs...nice milk run ;-)

 

[Norris]

Opps by OW i mean One World.
The fare is Melbourne - Berlin return.
Most reasonable ive seen so far is Finn air, but the flight times vary and there is 2 stops.

 

[gwilli1]

Opps by OW i mean One World.
The fare is Melbourne - Berlin return.
Most reasonable ive seen so far is Finn air, but the flight times vary and there is 2 stops.

Yeah I wasn't sure if you ment One way or One World .

Finnair is looking your best OW option . MEL-SIN-HEL-BER-HEL-SIN/HKG-MEL for around $2.3K ( codeshare with QF in/out of Oz)

AY5006(QF9) / AY82 / AY911 - 25hrs 25 mins (via SIN)

AY918 / AY69 / AY5005 (QF10) - 26hrs 35 mins (via SIN)
or
AY918 / AY69 / QF30 - 26hrs 55 mins (via HKG)

I have found out that it will be possible to go MEL-LAX-BER from 21st May , with Air Berlin starting a non-stop LAX-BER 3 days a week (MoWeFr) Dep LAX 14.45 Arr BER 10.40 ( Flight time 10 hrs 55 mins) , but with the early morning arrival of QF93 @ LAX , it would mean a 7 hrs layover and its around a 12 hr layover coming back connecting to QF94 . The Rtn fare LAX-BER is around $1200 + $2K MEL-LAX , therefore it makes it an expensive and long option.

 

[Awesom Andy]

AB also operates BKK-TXL 4 times a week, although I'm not sure how you would get to BKK for a 11:05am departure.

 

[gwilli1]

AB also operates BKK-TXL 4 times a week, although I'm not sure how you would get to BKK for a 11:05am departure.

Yeah I noticed that also, but the only way ex MEL to BKK is with DeathStar and then an o/nite would be required to connect with AB next day .

 

[Awesom Andy]

Yeah I noticed that also, but the only way ex MEL to BKK is with DeathStar and then an o/nite would be required to connect with AB next day .

The LAX option doesn't sound so bad anymore...

 

[dajop]

You could always go via CX, BA or QF to somewhere in Europe then buy separate fare to Berlin.

Alternatively take QF to Singapore ($1100 AUD, a bit higher than normal, but there you go) then purchase a Finnair fare from Sin to Berlin (~$950 AUD)

 

[codash1099]

BTW: Who wants to discuss this issue with me in person, may meet me at the world biggest tourism fare in Berlin next month!

I'll be there right at that time. Might take 5 minutes(!) and have a look.

 

[elbarto]

QF could put an A332 on sin-ber if demand exists. I doubt a 744 would be a suitable ac for the route.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[wandering_fred]

Alternatively take QF to Singapore ($1100 AUD, a bit higher than normal, but there you go) then purchase a Finnair fare from Sin to Berlin (~$950 AUD)

Or if your Oz-SIN ticket is part of an exSIN round trip you can save another couple of hundred...

Happy wandering

Fred