[Conjecture]Qantas to move European base to Berlin (BER)?

[marki]

Thanks Berlin you obviously know a lot. So thanks for sharing.i actually like Berlin a lot and would prefer direct transfers and avoiding using LHR airport altogether which gives me the creeps every-time one has to go thru security. Roll eyes takes ages ..... To get thru...
Cheers

 

[kelvedon]

Berlin is not renowned for its future planning..

Albert Speer thought otherwise.

 

[marki]

Maybe direct flight to Berlin in 18 months time with new 777-8 series same like to LHR. 19hrs from OZ.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Maybe direct flight to Berlin in 18 months time with new 777-8 series same like to LHR. 19hrs from OZ. 

Although we won't see any 777X series aircrafts flying commercially until at least 2019...

 

[marki]

Although we won't see any 777X series aircrafts flying commercially until at least 2019...

This may be a problem

 

[marki]

Any updates on this topic? Can we expect any Berlin base?

 

[Isochronous]

Well for starters, the airport has to actually open!

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

Sounds like the new BER airport wont be ready to open for another 2 years. Was just doing some research since I'd read TXL was due to be shut down and I'm booked on BA to fly there from LHR in October.

Seems Australia isn't the only country where Government projects run behind time and over budget. They're spending $50M on TXL to upgrade toilets and screens and a few other odds and ends. Wont surpirse me if they are forced to keep TXL running for a lot longer than planned.

 

[Mattg]

I still think (well, hope anyway!) that this will happen, although not for at least a year, probably more. But once both Brandenburg airport opens, and the A330s have been refurbished, it seems a no-brainer to me to run an A330 PER-DXB-BER.

Slightly OT but I am in Berlin at the moment and the other day I went to check out the old Tempelhof Airport. They've turned it into a giant public park and you can walk/ride a bike/rollerskate etc. down the runways. Much of the original terminal building is still there too. I thought it was pretty cool!

 

[Isochronous]

I still think (well, hope anyway!) that this will happen, although not for at least a year, probably more. But once both Brandenburg airport opens, and the A330s have been refurbished, it seems a no-brainer to me to run an A330 PER-DXB-BER.

Slightly OT but I am in Berlin at the moment and the other day I went to check out the old Tempelhof Airport. They've turned it into a giant public park and you can walk/ride a bike/rollerskate etc. down the runways. Much of the original terminal building is still there too. I thought it was pretty cool!

It would also be a no-brainer running an A333 for that distance to include a PE cabin!

 

[Must...Fly!]

It would also be a no-brainer running an A333 for that distance to include a PE cabin!

Would it? I've been thinking that QF pulling out of PER for everything except a codeshare heavy daily to SIN was a good move.

Now with EY coming in and EK going A380, along with QR and the multitude of Asian airlines, there is going to be some serious price wars going on. In which case, QF would hardly ever have a chance of turning a profit - so why bother?

Just a thought I had, anyway.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I still think (well, hope anyway!) that this will happen, although not for at least a year, probably more. But once both Brandenburg airport opens, and the A330s have been refurbished, it seems a no-brainer to me to run an A330 PER-DXB-BER.

Probably easier to get EK to do the runs with a 77W and stick a QF code to it.

 

[Isochronous]

Would it? I've been thinking that QF pulling out of PER for everything except a codeshare heavy daily to SIN was a good move.

Now with EY coming in and EK going A380, along with QR and the multitude of Asian airlines, there is going to be some serious price wars going on. In which case, QF would hardly ever have a chance of turning a profit - so why bother?

Just a thought I had, anyway.

Except CX is the only one with a PE offering - QR, EY, EK, SQ don't have it.

 

[Berlin]

Back to topic... After all I can gather from my old friends in Berlin and what I read in the papers, 2 years from now for the new airport is a very positive estimate- they still haven't even set an official date they're aiming for. Add in a good dose of German negativity and it all looks much more like 5 years. Saying that- any day that TXL stays open longer is a good day for most Berliners as it's so much better accessible unless you live in the far South. Oh and yes, what they've done with Tempelhof is indeed very cool. If that was here in Australia, you'd probably have a dozen blocks of faceless Meriton apartment buildings standing there now :shock:

 

[Must...Fly!]

Except CX is the only one with a PE offering - QR, EY, EK, SQ don't have it.

Can 20 or 25 Y+ seats pull a profit on their own? Because J and Y will have to be cut in price to be competitive, so where does Y+ then fit in? Would an average fare of $3,000 and load factor around 70% pull a profit?

Still think Berlin is a good option for QF, but I think the best way to do it is to have a small fleet based out of DXB with DXB-based crew.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Can 20 or 25 Y+ seats pull a profit on their own? Because J and Y will have to be cut in price to be competitive, so where does Y+ then fit in? Would an average fare of $3,000 and load factor around 70% pull a profit?

Or do what SQ does - charge QF Y+ prices for their own Y seats ex-SIN and still have full flights.

 

[Mattg]

Probably easier to get EK to do the runs with a 77W and stick a QF code to it.

That's essentially what they're doing now, anyway. The thing is though, that EK doesn't fly to Berlin, even though they want to, because of German government restrictions which mean they would have to give up another German destination, which is unlikely.

There are many reasons why QF should fill the gap, and I am sure they could do it profitably if they tried.

The reason for the PER leg would be firstly, to add another QF flight which feeds into to DXB from Australia, and secondly because the A330 has to come from somewhere, and PER is geographically an obvious choice.
The other option would be to just do DXB-BER shuttles, and I have mixed thoughts about that. I can't really see QF wanting to do that, but on the other hand there is an opportunity to make a profit by setting up a Jetconnect type subsidiary out of DXB. I'm sure BER isn't the only gap in the EK network, e.g. I heard that their flights to London were completely full and they can't get more slots. IIRC QF have two slots which they are leasing and could use if they wanted to. This isn't the only example.

 

[wandering_fred]

Except CX is the only one with a PE offering - QR, EY, EK, SQ don't have it.

I have flown y+ on BA QF and CX. The only route I have seen an essentially not full cabin was on PER-HKG. But then I don't think Y was overflowing on that particular flight either. Other than SYD-HKG it seems very problematic of even find a QF Y+ seat to SE Asia. I should note that neither BA nor CX have lowered their J prices because the W cabin is taking too many customers. On routes where 7+ hour red-eye flights exist, the cabin will sell.

One of QF's issues is that they will compete on price of flights sold coming into Australia but are almost at the price gouging level (my opinion) on flights sold leaving Australia. Alas most of the full service airline competitors are happy to go along with the existing price levels.

It will be interesting to see if QF actually buy the 789s and if they are used to re-establish serious international service from PER. UL has a mixed reputation, but if they fly CMB-PER (as well as the expected CMB-MEL) the competition horse may well have left the barn by the time QF decides there are cities that have international passengers other than SYD and (occasionally) MEL.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[marki]

January 15, 2014

Fraport said on Wednesday that passenger traffic at its main Frankfurt airport hub rose 2.9 percent to 4.095 million people in December.
Details: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1389787828.html

Nail in the proverbial

 

[marki]

Well for starters, the airport has to actually open!

Isochronous please don't assume the list posters here don't realise the simple fact about Berlin's main airport not yet open.

Your post is not an update.
Who say's a Berlin base needs an open Brandenburg Airport.

You can take back the starters

Yuk