Does WP guest for Qantas F lounge need to be on same flight?

[durbrain]

The following statement on QF website suggests that the oneworld status equivalent of your QF status is recognised by QF Oneworld partners and not by QF itself.
Your tier benefits are global with oneworld®

One of the outstanding aspects of the Qantas Frequent Flyer program is the way you can benefit far beyond the Qantas network. With our oneworld partners your status is recognised wherever your journey takes you. Silver, Gold and Platinum members enjoy the benefits of oneworld Ruby, Sapphire or Emerald status, based on equivalent membership level with Frequent Flyer.

https://www.qantas.com/fflyer/dyn/flying/tier-benefits#benefits-of-platinum

That says you have benefits with OW partners. It does not say the OW benefits do not apply on your own OW airline. You are making an assumption that contradicts the rules outlined on the OW website.

 

[durbrain]

No need to search Oneworld site. You are a Qantas Platinum not a Oneworld Emerald. You are only a Oneworld Emerald when you fly another Oneworld airline.

So you say. One FF team member says otherwise.

 

[hutch]

The problem with this debate is that is never ending... until we get some evidence of people guesting into QF lounges under the OW rules, then it'll just be a constant debate on how people interpret the rules.

 

[defurax]

That says you have benefits with OW partners. It does not say the OW benefits do not apply on your own OW airline. You are making an assumption that contradicts the rules outlined on the OW website.

It does not contradict the rules on OW website if you simply agree that the OW rules only apply outside of your "home" program. Which obviously you don't!

 

[opusman]

So you say. One FF team member says otherwise.

So lots of us say, actually.

 

[hutch]

So you say. One FF team member says otherwise.

Have to bite... the reason why this site uses the phrase HUCA, is because QF staff can't necessarily be relied upon.

 

[durbrain]

The problem with this debate is that is never ending... until we get some evidence of people guesting into QF lounges under the OW rules, then it'll just be a constant debate on how people interpret the rules.

Agreed. I have asked Red Roo (as suggested). Hopefully will get a reply.

 

[opusman]

until we get some evidence of people guesting into QF lounges under the OW rules, then it'll just be a constant debate on how people interpret the rules.

There is already lots of evidence for the reverse (it NOT being allowed), and only hearsay and wishful thinking to support the other interpretation.

 

[durbrain]

It does not contradict the rules on OW website if you simply agree that the OW rules only apply outside of your "home" program. Which obviously you don't!

Yes, I don't. There is no reason to believe this and no mention of this anywhere. And given how explicit the OW rules are in outlining exceptions (many of which don't need to be stated if what you say is true e.g. the AA exemption), I don't see it wouldn't be stated that "OW status does not apply when flying on your home airline" if that were the case. An assumption with no basis. Like saying members of the Eurozone must accept Euros unless it's an Italian living in Italy in which case they can refuse to accept Euros!

 

[durbrain]

So lots of us say, actually.

Well popular opinion and democracy do not necessarily represent the truth.

 

[durbrain]

There is already lots of evidence for the reverse (it NOT being allowed), and only hearsay and wishful thinking to support the other interpretation.

No there's lots of opinion. There is no evidence. Nothing from any of the QF or OW terms or conditions has been cited to support your statements. I at least have one FF team member who has gotten back to me explicitly confirming what I have told you which is entirely in keeping with the rules as listed. Happy to be proven wrong but "I say so" or "that's the way it is" or "My uncle Jimmy got rejected" does not cut it.

 

[opusman]

Happy to be proven wrong

Somehow I doubt that...

 

[RichardMEL]

I disagree that QF is doing what AA is doing. AA's exemption for their own members is ​part of the OW rules. So an AA can enter using OW status, but they still can't use their own domestic lounges as per the OW rules. QF not allowing QF members flying QF metal to bring in a OW guest is breaking the OW rules. So the only way around that is to say that OW status is not recognised - this is what most ppl are saying but nobody has provided any evidence this is case.

tbh I can't explain why QF would not allow a guest flying on a QF(not the same) flight or other OW flight into a QF lounge. My interpretation of the rules say they should, with the exception of flying on a QF marketed, but non OW OPERATED flight (eg: EK, NF, etc)

re the AA thing.. QF does allow its Golds and Plats into domestic lounges on purely domestic routings (I suspect one could even argue that it's the "included Qantas Club membership" that is providing the access - certainly not the OW status). My analogy with AA treating its own elites differently to other OW elites in their own lounge seems to me to be exactly the same as QF treating their own elites differently in their own lounges though it is obviously not the exact same policy. I still feel the anaology holds. Others will obviously feel otherwise and that's fine

(of course the entire reason that the US majors - AA/DL/UA) do not provide lounge access to their elites for purely domestic flying is simply capacity related, and they too have paid membership programs - in this respect QF and probably other OW airlines like BA, AY, CX etc) treat their own elites better in their own lounges but we're talking far more people in the USA.

I'm a UA *G so I have some experience with that side of things.

I take the point about QF not wanting to pay for outside plebs, but this is incredibly stingy, given a) they have to do it if a QF member brings another OW member into any other OW lounge and b) the situation where a QF member flying QF metal wanting to bring in another OW member would be rare. In any case, this still doesn't excuse being outside the OW rules.

but it's not QF paying for "outside plebs" - QF charges those other airlines for use. Thus, in the case of an EK flight but QF customer, it's more likely it's EK saying "we don't want to pay for them unless they're on our flight" - that was my point.

yes if a) happens, QF is charged for both those instances because the passengers are entering that OW lounge as OW elites. That's part of the oneworld agreement. Again, when a QF elite enters a QF lounge, I think it's best to treat the idea as their OW equivalent level as being irrelevant more or less. QF status is recognised by other OW partners and access provided per those rules, just as QF will allow a CX or AY elite into any QC when flying QF(or other oneworld flight)

with respect to b) QF are treating the passenger entering as a QF passenger into their lounge and can apply whatever rules they like to their own passenger IMHO.

I'm not saying it's obviously consistent, customer friendly or even fair, but I am saying that I do agree with those that believe QF can and do treat their own passengers in their own way and is not really related to their OW status because your OW equivalent status such as sapphire or emerald is only relevant when entering another airlines's operated lounge or on their operated flights IMHO.

(just as if I am flying AA domestic and if I'm an AA elite I can't enter, but if I'm a QF WP, AA will allow me in due to the oneworld agreement and as such I could guest an AA guest in - even if they weren't flying AA that day, but another OW airline (but in that case it would be international travel, and then the scenario changes, but I hope the general point is made without being too confusing.

I do feel that this page: https://www.qantas.com/fflyer/dyn/flying/tier-benefits#benefits-of-platinum

(and Gold etc) is very specific that one's QF Status privs are separate for you accessing QF lounges.

So, in theory, a QF WP couldn't bring a friend flying CX into the QF F or J lounges at MEL or SYD, but could take them into any other oneworld lounge. Maybe a better example is SIN or HKG, where they could take non-QF flying guest into CX lounges.

my 3 cents

 

[durbrain]

Somehow I doubt that...

If an official response from Red Roo or other form of explicit clarification states so I will accept it as QF's official stance. Though, yes, I will still think it's against OW policy.

 

[RichardMEL]

So you say. One FF team member says otherwise.

yes, but it could well be that they're wrong.

Because the policy is not well worded, and relatively complex, it can confuse easily. It's poor if they don't know the policy when it's their job to, but we're all human. Remember some lounge angels/drags don't know them properly either and that can create more confusion.

the more I look at the way things are written up online QF does NOT treat you as a oneworld passenger *IF* flying QF and entering a QF lounge. The oneworld logo and level on your card is for the benefit of other OW carriers and lounges, not really QF who only see your QF status and benefits.

as example QF WP/WP1 have arrivals access to domestic lounges - this is not a oneworld benefit. I see this kind of thing as an example of this.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Maybe instead of continuing to expend all this energy arguing about the correctness of the interpretation of the rules, that energy could be redirected into lobbying QF to change the access criteria for WPs to match those for OWEs?
There is a snowball's chance in hell of them doing so, but that's exponentially greater than the chances of achieving a positive outcome by prolonging this discussion.

 

[Moindardt]

I was talking to a lady from the AA Flagship lounge how this works. By default, local FF pax don't have access to their domestic business class lounges but do to other oneworld domestic ones as part of the oneworld agreement. With AA, you have to pay for membership except if you are a Concierge Key member, where it is complimentary. With QF, QP access is provided complimentary with QF Gold.

 

[JohnK]

So you say. One FF team member says otherwise.

Not just me. It is logical that you are a Qantas Platinum in the eyes of Qantas staff. A Oneworld Emerald is anyone with that tier from other Oneworld airlines. If Qantas didn’t want to distinguish between the 2 there wouldn't be this wording in the rules.

Your interpretation is slightly flawed. You can't be a Oneworld Emerald when flying Qantas and a Qantas Platinum when flying Jetstar. You are one or the other not either when it suits you. Obviously a Oneworld Emerald flying Jetstar has no access to First lounge?

Aldo don't take everything you hear from call centre staff as gospel. Most times I know more than they do and I am sure I am not the only person here on AFF in that situation. Many call centre staff have thanked me for bringing them up to date with things they did not know.

Anyway hope that Red Roo can respond to finally clarify the interpretation in your eyes.

 

[RichardMEL]

Maybe instead of continuing to expend all this energy arguing about the correctness of the interpretation of the rules, that energy could be redirected into lobbying QF to change the access criteria for WPs to match those for OWEs?
There is a snowball's chance in hell of them doing so, but that's exponentially greater than the chances of achieving a positive outcome by prolonging this discussion.

I would have actually thought P1 would at least get the benefit of more guests or "anytime guests" but they do not which is curious.

 

[durbrain]

the more I look at the way things are written up online QF does NOT treat you as a oneworld passenger *IF* flying QF and entering a QF lounge. The oneworld logo and level on your card is for the benefit of other OW carriers and lounges, not really QF who only see your QF status and benefits.

as example QF WP/WP1 have arrivals access to domestic lounges - this is not a oneworld benefit. I see this kind of thing as an example of this.

I disagree. Your statement works on the assumption that QF and OW statuses are mutually exclusive or hierarchical. There is no evidence for that in either case.

A QF WP member arriving off a domestic QF (metal) flight is still both QF and OW. But it is their QF status that allows them access to the lounge on arrival. That is not to say it is 'breaking' the OW rules. They are independent and you can be both. That is not proof that QF trumps OW.

The four categories of admission/eligibility listed on the Qantas website are independent, non-hierarchical and not mutually exclusive. You can be any, none or more than one simultaneously. E.g. A F passenger that is QF PS and OW ruby obviously can access the F lounge by travel class entitlement. That he is not eligible by QF or OW status is not 'breaking' their rules. He/she has just used another means of eligibility.

In regards to your AA example. Under my (and the FF team member's) understanding you can have both QF/AA and OW status. Now an AA exec plat is also OWE. He can neither enter a domestic lounge by AA rules nor OW rules because both rules explicitly state that AA exec plat is excluded from domestic lounge access. So AA's exemption is not outside the OW rules. The QF situation is different because there is no provision within the OW rule that states the limitation of guest access.