Qantas / Emirates tie up (Partnership inc. Codeshare, Status)

[Pushka]

Advice please. We had already planned a trip to Eastern Europe for July next year, travelling via Dubai. We had planned to fly Adel-Dubai-Istanbul-Venice-Dubai-Adel through Emirates, and as their website allows it, flying Business on some sectors and economy for the day flights. This would have cost around $11000 for two of us.

More research found that we could fly via Singapore, using Virgin and Qantas redemption points, so only flying Emirates on the red sectors, through Singapore instead of direct to Dubai, for the cost of about $6000 with Business for the night flights.

The Singapore-Adelaide legs are all done and dusted, and the Emirates flights about to open up for our dates. Are we best to book our Emirates flights (with Emirates) now - (we have joined their FF programme) or should we wait to see what happens with Qantas. I guess as we are flying Business back from Venice it probably doesn't matter?

 

[turtlemichael]

Qantas a high-profile brand? Maybe in Australia, and moreover maybe for all the wrong reasons.

Guess journalism is a bit more naive and throw-about in the West.

OT but Qantas is a highly regarded well known brand overseas in my experience. Not the highest but well above the pack. The jaundiced view comes mainly in Australia but maybe some of us know it better.

 

[SteveJohnson]

And for those wondering why we are talking 777, it's expected that Thursday will not only see the possibility of 777 codeshares, but the gifting of 777 slots to QF from EK.

Markis10, so you are saying that QF will announce it will take on some 777s as part of this week's announcement? BTW, what is the source of 'Thursday' being the date for this announcement, I have not seen any specific day listed in any media anywhere, or is this another of your 'tips'?

 

[TheInsider]

what is the source of 'Thursday' being the date for this announcement, I have not seen any specific day listed in any media anywhere, or is this another of your 'tips'?

I'd say it is due to the CEO or Chairman of Emirates (or what ever he is) coming to SYD on that date, and also the cancellation of the usual SYD-AKLvv A380 service that day.

 

[Scrimo]

Markis10, so you are saying that QF will announce it will take on some 777s as part of this week's announcement? BTW, what is the source of 'Thursday' being the date for this announcement, I have not seen any specific day listed in any media anywhere, or is this another of your 'tips'?

So if I understand all of this, you are saying that QF may have in the not too distant future 777s in QF colours, inside and out?? This would be great news!

 

[alieninperth]

Markis10, so you are saying that QF will announce it will take on some 777s as part of this week's announcement? BTW, what is the source of 'Thursday' being the date for this announcement, I have not seen any specific day listed in any media anywhere, or is this another of your 'tips'?

I'm pretty sure that Thursday was mentioned in the print edition of 'The West Australian' on Saturday. The online article seems to be somewhat shorter that the one printed, more of an actual storey rather than a rehashed press release. I will have a look when I get home and see if I can scan a copy of it.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Looks to me like QF are realising EK is cutting their grass AU-AKL and the way to get them out is to tie up in another area.

realising? I think they may have noticed some time ago, especially when they are flying over 1000 seats a day on the route.

 

[markis10]

Markis10, so you are saying that QF will announce it will take on some 777s as part of this week's announcement? BTW, what is the source of 'Thursday' being the date for this announcement, I have not seen any specific day listed in any media anywhere, or is this another of your 'tips'?

I was not the one who presented the idea:

The partnership will be announced Thursday. Emirates is not flying their A380 on from Sydney to Auckland on Thursday. Excluding weather and operation related factors, this is the first time this has occurred.

Perfect opportunity for a press announcement, QF and EK A380, side by side.

In my opinion - good bye Frankfurt, and possibly QF International out of Adelaide once EK starts up flights there. Further afield, perhaps one flight per day into LHR instead of 2.

I just agreed with it after pointing out the Tim Clark is in town that day which tends to make it more certain than not.

So if I understand all of this, you are saying that QF may have in the not too distant future 777s in QF colours, inside and out?? This would be great news!

The townsville refueller is reporting this to be a very likely rumour - as with all things on the net a grain of salt is needed, as well as a little hope

 

[simongr]

realising? I think they may have noticed some time ago, especially when they are flying over 1000 seats a day on the route.

Are the loads full? Qf are flying about 1,500 seats a day to AKL. Plus WLG, ZQN...

 

[markis10]

Are the loads full? Qf are flying about 1,500 seats a day to AKL. Plus WLG, ZQN...

I am not so sure its seats thats paying the bill:

[TABLE="width: 775"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]TABLE 1 SCHEDULED INTERNATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC TO AND FROM AUSTRALIA: June 2012[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Inbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Outbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operator[/TD]
[TD]Country to/from[/TD]
[TD]Passengers[/TD]
[TD]Freight[/TD]
[TD]Mail[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Passengers[/TD]
[TD]Freight[/TD]
[TD]Mail[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Emirates[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 19 730[/TD]
[TD] 1 242.3[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 16 204[/TD]
[TD] 780.4[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 39 644[/TD]
[TD] 986.4[/TD]
[TD] 51.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 37 482[/TD]
[TD] 918.0[/TD]
[TD] 170.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



And

[TABLE="width: 1034"]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Inbound[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Outbound[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operator[/TD]
[TD]Service to/from[/TD]
[TD]No. of[/TD]
[TD]Pax[/TD]
[TD]Seats[/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]No. of[/TD]
[TD]Pax[/TD]
[TD]Seats[/TD]
[TD]Seat[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Flights[/TD]
[TD]Carried[/TD]
[TD]Available[/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Flights[/TD]
[TD]Carried[/TD]
[TD]Available[/TD]
[TD]Utilisation %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Emirates (c)[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 120[/TD]
[TD] 19 730[/TD]
[TD] 39 572[/TD]
[TD]49.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 120[/TD]
[TD] 16 204[/TD]
[TD] 39 517[/TD]
[TD]41.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 444[/TD]
[TD] 47 955[/TD]
[TD] 69 281[/TD]
[TD]69.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 444[/TD]
[TD] 44 213[/TD]
[TD] 69 753[/TD]
[TD]63.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[simongr]

I guess a key benefit for EK is that the a/c isnt sat around all day doing nothing.

 

[greenfish]

Be interesting to see what happens trans Tasman, there are three options I see:

1. no change
2. Jetconnect pulled and EK operate on behalf of QF.
3. EK pull out for Jetconnect to continue.


Option 2 is interesting given it would allow QF to free significant frequency capacity back into the domestic market and help accelerate the 734 send off.

What about option 4, 1 less Jetconnect flight a day in each direction on each EK serviced TT route. Would be simple and would boost utilisation of the EK widebody + free up some 738 capacity for QF. Would help compete with NZ too, who seem to use widebodies to supplement their existing A320 TT fleet.

 

[markis10]

What about option 4, 1 less Jetconnect flight a day in each direction on each EK serviced TT route. Would be simple and would boost utilisation of the EK widebody + free up some 738 capacity for QF. Would help compete with NZ too, who seem to use widebodies to supplement their existing A320 TT fleet.

I think option 3, clearly 40% load factors wont change much by taking out 1 QF flight from each city, while having more traffic on the ME route may see sense in sending them back early. No doubt we will find out Thursday, it should be interesting, especially if the 777 rumour eventuates, given 777 and 787 is a joint rating for pilots while offering the freight capacity to replace the EK birds trans tasman.

 

[Danger]

QF, VA apply to renew routes - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com

This article notes Qantas has applied to to the International Air Services Commission to renew flights to, among other, Germany. I guess it could potentially be a smokescreen or even a safeguard should the EK arrangement not be approved, but it's another factor in talk of pulling the FRA service.

 

[richie9x]

Be interesting to see what happens trans Tasman, there are three options I see:

1. no change
2. Jetconnect pulled and EK operate on behalf of QF.
3. EK pull out for Jetconnect to continue.


Option 2 is interesting given it would allow QF to free significant frequency capacity back into the domestic market and help accelerate the 734 send off.

I almost think that it will be option 1. Given the hassles the AirNZ and Virgin had getting approval for their partnership for TT flights it might just be easiest for Qantas and Emirates to keep things as they are transtasman. Just concentrate on codeshares on long haul and Australian domestic routes for the moment, then consider TT at some time in the future.

 

[markis10]

I almost think that it will be option 1. Given the hassles the AirNZ and Virgin had getting approval for their partnership for TT flights it might just be easiest for Qantas and Emirates to keep things as they are transtasman. Just concentrate on codeshares on long haul and Australian domestic routes for the moment, then consider TT at some time in the future.

Its a bit of a different kettle of fish though, EK has what 3-5 flights a day they can hand to QF, with DJ or NZ it was a lot more. I have a feeling the 777s are part of the deal so EK dont loose the onward NZ freight business (QF does not have the cap) while allowing QF to pull back the A330s to domestic. NZs use of the 777 trans tasman is increasing and Thai have now announced moving to daily 777s for BNE as well, we live in interesting times.

Then again, it could be option 1 for everything (including the whole QF int network) with just some codeshares, who knows, although EK are not going to tolerate 40% loads across the ditch forever.

 

[oz_mark]

QF, VA apply to renew routes - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com

This article notes Qantas has applied to to the International Air Services Commission to renew flights to, among other, Germany. I guess it could potentially be a smokescreen or even a safeguard should the EK arrangement not be approved, but it's another factor in talk of pulling the FRA service.

Reading the application, Qantas is also seeking a variation to enable the capacity to be used by a wholly owned subsidiary. Kepping their options open! See: http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/4719.pdf

They are requesting the same variation on the Phillipines route as well.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Its a bit of a different kettle of fish though, EK has what 3-5 flights a day they can hand to QF, with DJ or NZ it was a lot more. I have a feeling the 777s are part of the deal so EK dont loose the onward NZ freight business (QF does not have the cap) while allowing QF to pull back the A330s to domestic. NZs use of the 777 trans tasman is increasing and Thai have now announced moving to 777s for BNE as well, we live in interesting times.

Then again, it could be option 1 for everything (including the whole QF int network) with just some codeshares, who knows, although EK are not going to tolerate 40% loads across the ditch forever.

Huh? Thai have been flying 777's to Brisbane for years

 

[markis10]

Huh? Thai have been flying 777's to Brisbane for years

Sorry, missed daily 777 ops.

 

[Danger]

Reading the application, Qantas is also seeking a variation to enable the capacity to be used by a wholly owned subsidiary. Kepping their options open! See: http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/4719.pdf

They are requesting the same variation on the Phillipines route as well.

Hmmm. The devil is in the detail.

I know nothing about the process but to me "wholly owned subsidary" rules EK out - and JQ in.