Qantas Fleet

[markis10]

And I still laugh at the way everyone blames AJ for QF's problems whilst the previous 'management' get a free pass.

And how long has he had to fix those mistakes?? QF is it that different to NZ in that respect

 

[maninblack]

I am not suggesting AJ deserves a free pass either but he inherited a big set of problems.

 

[ajw373]

And how long has he had to fix those mistakes?? QF is it that different to NZ in that respect

Actually yes very different.

ANZ as we all know was more or less nationalised after the Ansett fiasco with the government taking 80% and putting in just under $1b NZD.

ANZ was able to reduce their staffing costs by about 30% not sure how easy that was but the option was reduce or the company would die. Qantas has been trying but gets resistance (rightly or wrongly every time) at every proposed measure to reduce costs.

NZ converted their domestic operation to LCC style. Qantas any mention of handing over routes to JQ meets howls of protest and no doubt if QFd was made LCC rather than use Jetstar the result would be the same.

ANZ doesn't have any significant domestic competition unlike a Qantas with a resurgent Virgin being bankrolled by some deep pocket airlines.

NZ as a country is small and realises that long haul only works from a central hub yet here in Aus people expect long haul to every destination from all major cities.

ANZ has far better code share relationships with its one world partners. Qantas only really plays well with AA which of course helps their us operations. That said OneWorld as a whole doesn't play with each other as well as Star and Skyteam.

And finally NZ is one of the few countries that is beyond the reach of Dubai and the ME as a single hop. I read the other day that over 80% of the worlds population is within one hop of Dubai and other cities in the region. NZ and the pacific is the one area outside this range.

So yes some very very big differences that have allowed ANZ to restructure and find a niche where they can, within reason flourish. Bit harder for Qantas.

 

[sydks]

Great post ajw373 and very true!

 

[medhead]

And I still scratch my head at the way everyone blames AJ for QF's problems whilst the previous 'management' get a free pass.

65% line in the sand is all his to own. He has failed to capitalise on the assets he had. He has publicly gone to war with employees and destroyed moral. The grounding was also entirely his to own. He grounded the airline because pilots wore a red tie.

 

[Brettmcg]

65% line in the sand is all his to own. He has failed to capitalise on the assets he had. He has publicly gone to war with employees and destroyed moral. The grounding was also entirely his to own. He grounded the airline because pilots wore a red tie.

Did he actually ever utter the words ''line in the sand''. I know this is often attributed to him, but I've never seen any evidence that it was indeed his rhetoric. Happy to be proven incorrect.

 

[medhead]

A pedantic point but AirNZ doesn't have one world partners. They have star alliance partners. Joyce has had 5 years to improve his relationships with his one world partners. Instead he has gone to war with them, e.g. Jetstar HKG.

 

[medhead]

Did he actually ever utter the words ''line in the sand''. I know this is often attributed to him, but I've never seen any evidence that it was indeed his rhetoric. Happy to be proven incorrect.

[-]Pretty sure he did[/-]. Can't find a direct quote, The Oz story from 2011 'Alan Joyce draws line in the sand' says that 65% has long been known within qantas as the "line in the sand". So you must be right. Still in is in quotation marks in a number of stories. Wonder who used the term.

But it is an irrelevant question. Qantas had a 65% "line in the sand". If not him someone at qantas did state the 65%. As CEO if he must've supported it since it even existed in the first place.

Then there is the fact that qantas under his leadership has engaged in a capacity war, killing the bottom line in the process. I've never thought that was the best answer to his challenges.

BTW our CFO is leaving having just turned us around from -$10million to +$60000. I've recommended qantas as needing their skills.

 

[burmans]

And I still scratch my head at the way everyone blames AJ for QF's problems whilst the previous 'management' get a free pass.

Ah you sound like a politician (not naming names)!!. How long has he been in the position? He's the CEO, many or most CEOS inherit a company which has some issues, the argument that you have inherited problems is valid for about 6 months, after that the answer has to be "you've known about this for 6 month, what are YOU doing to fix it?". From the Qantas website "Alan Joyce has been Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Qantas since November 2008." .

For me, you get a mximum of 6 month grace to access the situation, by twelve months you need to have a viable plan to address and are well into executing (and stop using the "we inherited it" excuse), and by 3-4 years you are judged on the results. At nearly 6 years its well past a point you can blame this on his pre-decessors!

 

[Brettmcg]

Early retirement of seven B767-300s, with all aircraft of this type to go by the end of 2014. Current fleet size is 10 aircraft.

Seems this has been brought forward by a few months. If I recall correctly, previous advice had them leaving the fleet by the end of Q1 2015.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Ah you sound like a politician (not naming names)!!. How long has he been in the position? He's the CEO, many or most CEOS inherit a company which has some issues, the argument that you have inherited problems is valid for about 6 months, after that the answer has to be "you've known about this for 6 month, what are YOU doing to fix it?". From the Qantas website "Alan Joyce has been Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Qantas since November 2008." .

For me, you get a mximum of 6 month grace to access the situation, by twelve months you need to have a viable plan to address and are well into executing (and stop using the "we inherited it" excuse), and by 3-4 years you are judged on the results. At nearly 6 years its well past a point you can blame this on his pre-decessors!

Lets not forget he was an executive with the Qantas Group for sometime before becoming CEO, so he wouldn't be completely out of touch with happenings, I daresay he may even have had some input to decisions prior to becoming CEO.

 

[BD1959]

Did he actually ever utter the words ''line in the sand''. I know this is often attributed to him, but I've never seen any evidence that it was indeed his rhetoric. Happy to be proven incorrect.

It seems he did.

I can't find the article itself but this PPrune post quotes the words from the Australian.

Many times John Borgetti has attributed this line to Geoff Dixon saying he's tired of hearing it and Joyce should get his own lines ....

Regards,

BD

 

[markis10]

It seems he did.

I can't find the article itself but this PPrune post quotes the words from the Australian.

Many times John Borgetti has attributed this line to Geoff Dixon saying he's tired of hearing it and Joyce should get his own lines ....

Regards,

BD

Indeed, it first arose in Feb 2004

Dixon was careful not to say Jetstar was aimed at Virgin Blue - the latter had already complained to competition officials several times about Qantas - so he explained instead that Qantas "must defend" a market share of 65-70%. In February 2004, just before Jetstar's launch, Dixon explained: "From what we know of the capacity plans of Virgin Blue and the other domestic carriers over the next two years, and our own plans for capacity increases, the three-product offering of Qantas, Jetstar and QantasLink will have around 65% of the domestic market. This is our line in the sand and we will provide the capacity and infrastructure to defend it against Virgin Blue and the other carriers.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...cks-to-line-in-the-sand-over-domestic-385875/

 

[medhead]

Seems this has been brought forward by a few months. If I recall correctly, previous advice had them leaving the fleet by the end of Q1 2015.

As I recall it was Q1 FY2015. Which would be in 2014 sometime.

 

[RAM]

Actually yes very different.

ANZ as we all know was more or less nationalised after the Ansett fiasco with the government taking 80% and putting in just under $1b NZD.

ANZ was able to reduce their staffing costs by about 30% not sure how easy that was but the option was reduce or the company would die. Qantas has been trying but gets resistance (rightly or wrongly every time) at every proposed measure to reduce costs.

NZ converted their domestic operation to LCC style. Qantas any mention of handing over routes to JQ meets howls of protest and no doubt if QFd was made LCC rather than use Jetstar the result would be the same.

ANZ doesn't have any significant domestic competition unlike a Qantas with a resurgent Virgin being bankrolled by some deep pocket airlines.

NZ as a country is small and realises that long haul only works from a central hub yet here in Aus people expect long haul to every destination from all major cities.

ANZ has far better code share relationships with its one world partners. Qantas only really plays well with AA which of course helps their us operations. That said OneWorld as a whole doesn't play with each other as well as Star and Skyteam.

And finally NZ is one of the few countries that is beyond the reach of Dubai and the ME as a single hop. I read the other day that over 80% of the worlds population is within one hop of Dubai and other cities in the region. NZ and the pacific is the one area outside this range.

So yes some very very big differences that have allowed ANZ to restructure and find a niche where they can, within reason flourish. Bit harder for Qantas.

ANZ is very different true.
ANZ cut staffing costs - also true

Yes, ANZ is different - they have 8 B777-200ERs and 6 B777-300ERs, they used these to replace all but one of their B747s. The last B747 is gone within weeks now. Similarly they replaced 17 of their B767s using the B777s or A320s - and have 5 to go. These are slated to be covered by the B777-300ER, B787-9s and A320s.

ANZ is different - their fleet age is 8.4 years vs Qantas 9.6 years and will progressively get younger relative to Qantas as in the next 6 months they replace their oldest planes. This would be the equivalent of Q replacing 13 planes. In total Q has just 6 planes on order currently stretching out to 2017/18 (and that includes the possibly never-never A380s).

ANZ's fleet looks much like EK's - concentrating on 3 major work horses with the B777 well represented.

I am not sure that NZ is outside the range of the A380 from Dubai but I do know that the passenger capacity is not sufficient for Emirates to offer that direct routing. I do know that the B777-300ER could definitely do that route range-wise though yet again the passenger demand is the issue.

Flight times for AKL/Europe, as you know, are virtually the same whether they go through Asia or the US.

This is the reason that the ME carriers do not have an advantage over ANZ for routing. The last time I looked (10yrs+) the preferred route 58/42 was via the US. It's probably altered somewhat but then again maybe not. Via Asia it is one stop with Korean, Cathay, BA, Malaysian, China Southern, Singapore etc. But it is a 2 stop with Ek, EY, Q.

Flying time with SIA is on par with SIA from Syd - 24h 40m and 22h 35m. The connection times are as little as 75 minutes as well (SIA always on schedule of course..).

Q has cut labour costs significantly but their ratio of 'overhead allocation' staff to flight crew and maintenance is a key area that shows a difference.

Your comment about ANZ finding a niche etc - well that is what Q has said was its strategy with all the Jetstar offshoots and new premium Asia-centric airline. In fact it is worth downloading the Q results transcripts for the last 6 years. I don't think there are any niches left for them to suggest (and then abandon after scoping studies etc).

The AJ (and his last 2 predecessors) death of a thousand cuts route to riches needs to be restated.

It is realy the route to riches for Q's competitors. EK is picking over the still breathing corpse and tearing off lumps at will.

OR is AJ secretly harbouring a desire to play the "Black Knight" in a Monty Python reprise?

 

[Brettmcg]

As I recall it was Q1 FY2015. Which would be in 2014 sometime.

After some quick research following my initial post, I found this presentation (http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/macquarie-conference-presentation-2014.pdf) given in May 2014, which notes the final six as scheduled to be retired Jan-15 to Mar-15. This means the final retirement of this fleet has indeed been brought forward.

 

[jimmylikesitwet]

ANZ is different - their fleet age is 8.4 years vs Qantas 9.6 years and will progressively get younger relative to Qantas as in the next 6 months they replace their oldest planes. This would be the equivalent of Q replacing 13 planes. In total Q has just 6 planes on order currently stretching out to 2017/18 (and that includes the possibly never-never A380s).

Qantas state their (group) fleet age as 7.7 years as of June 30 2014. Given they are retiring 13 767 and 2 747 aircraft in the next financial year (some which are over 20 years old) their average fleet age should improve in the short term. The investor presentation states they are looking at an average of around 8 years by the end of FY16 (2 years away) which is pretty healthy. I do acknowledge that some of this is due to Jetstar but as Air NZ operates as a LCC carrier domestically I think it is a fair comparison.

 

[whatmeworry]

Interesting observance about QF.

But we do know that in 2008 Jetstar had 36 aircraft to Qantas' 188planes. Today, it's 115 to 122. It seems that while Qantas could carry Jetstar, Jetstar cannot do the same for Qantas.

Read more: Qantas chief Alan Joyce has many questions to answer
​

 

[ajw373]

Interesting observance about QF.

Is it accurate? I don't recall Qantas dropping 50 aircraft nett over the past 6 years.

Ps wish you had of mentioned the article was written by Nick Xenophobic it would have save me the effort to click on the link.

 

[CaviAck]

Is it accurate? I don't recall Qantas dropping 50 aircraft nett over the past 6 years.

I have a feeling the QFLink planes are excluded in the newer number. As for JQ, I have a feeling that large number includes 3K and VF.