QF to Europe returns to the Kangaroo Route (via SIN)

[serfty]

.....err.......where??

Go up the escalator - pass all those that appear to have read the "sleeping in airports" bible as you turn left to the lounges nest ...

... think ... there's room for expansion there ... stuff those sleeping ...

Seriously, there is plenty of space up there.

 

[CaptJCool]

BRITE stats consistently show that ME3 flights from ADL and PER have consistently far lower loads than those from the east coast. This is despite also having large networks to feed passengers onto flights into those cities.

Qantas really isn't going to put planes onto routes where they are going to make money because some people want them flying there. They only have a certain number of planes.....

well, with married flights, it's always going to be much more pricey flying via than direct.

And with large business hubs in Syd and Melb payin premium business fares, of course, the yield managers will prefer profiteering options

 

[justinbrett]

My statistics were based on evidence from the Tourism body and airport passenger statistics. Not speculation. I never flew Singapore via Darwin but direct from Adelaide. I don't even know why you are using Darwin in your discussion because it's not relevant. It was the direct International flights that were axed. I'd avoid Darwin too. Where are your statistics/evidence ? Otherwise it is speculation.

I didn't debate your statistics. They were for total passengers out of Adelaide, not passengers flying Qanats. We're talking about why Qantas couldn't sustain a route, not the general international market ex Adelaide. You have speculated the reason it was axed was because Qanatas didn't want to put the larger aircraft on the route (which they already had). You also boldly said it was Qantas' strategy to reduce seats ("Clearly") without any evidence. That my friend is speculation.

Darwin is relevant because for a long time that was Adelaide's only international flight. It was felt at the time that Adelaide couldn't support its own flight so it operated via Darwin to increase loads (no that's not speculation, that's from an insider at Darwin airport).

My evidence is that Qantas operated flights out of Adelaide to Singapore until 2013. Now they don't. So either the route didn't warrant continued support without the SIN-LHR service, or Qantas has some evil plan to push you over to other international airlines. I'm going to speculate it's the former, but you make up your own mind.

 

[greyyy]

the yield managers will prefer profiteering options

How strange, business people prefer making money over loosing it.

 

[VPS]

If I lived in Adelaide, I would not bother with Qf!

Hard though if you're only a few hundred points off LTG - I guess I'll reassess when I get to LTG. I've gone direct with Emirates from Adelaide this time for the first time because I was using points in F and J but if you want to upgrade then you have to transit somewhere else to go on QF metal. If you could us points to upgrade on Emirates I would probably fly them for convenience.

 

[VPS]

Well the population in ADL is shrinking. Hard to justify extra services with a shrinking population.

You could choose to continue that population trend and move to SYD/MEL if this is a big enough concern for you.

Some people actually like living in Adelaide despite the disadvantages of QF having no direct international flights

 

[dajop]

*speculation* Maybe at some point in the future QF will look at something like the 737 MAX to fly ADL-SIN. Won't we all love that. If following the trends of TATL, it surely must be on the cards.

 

[VPS]

You'd want to be in J then even in a Max

 

[TheBOSman]

My evidence is that Qantas operated flights out of Adelaide to Singapore until 2013. Now they don't. So either the route didn't warrant continued support without the SIN-LHR service, or Qantas has some evil plan to push you over to other international airlines. I'm going to speculate it's the former, but you make up your own mind.

The problem for QF will always be that, in an aviation sense, Australia is the end of the world. Other than to/from NZ (a country of only 4.5 million people) from the west/northwest of Australia, connecting through Australia to somewhere other than Australia makes little logistical/economic sense. Sure, people fly QF USA-Australia-NZ, but it costs QF a lot more to do that than it costs NZ to do it direct, so it won't ever be a big moneymaker. QF is forced to survive heavily on O&D traffic from Australian points. Other airlines can fly Australia-Hub-AAA, bringing passengers from Australian cities to their hub, and onward to any number of points. And, they can obviously combine Aussie traffic with NZ traffic, SE Asia traffic, etc. QF can't do any of that. QF has to rely on ADL-AAA traffic for any ADL international flight it operates for the most part. That is hard from a city of 1.3 million people, especially when it is just far enough away from SIN (the most likely non-NZ international destination for QF to start) to be served with a narrowbody aircraft.

Also, the growth in international traffic was mostly due to an increase to Bali and the introduction of the QR DOH nonstop, which has already been cut back: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Airport#International

 

[mviy]

Some people actually like living in Adelaide despite the disadvantages of QF having no direct international flights

Indeed. I can think of a number of reasons to live there or in Hobart but flying QF international without needing domestic leg in AU first isn't one of them.

 

[dairyfloss]

Go up the escalator - pass all those that appear to have read the "sleeping in airports" bible as you turn left to the lounges nest ...

... think ... there's room for expansion there ... stuff those sleeping ...

Seriously, there is plenty of space up there.

Absolutely! When I first tasted flying with status and went up to the old QF/BA J lounge up there, I recall thinking "this is definitely where I'm going to come to relax when this ride is over!"... That was about 12 years ago, and I'm now sure I'll hit LTG before any ride is done, so I'm with you... stuff 'em! It's QF SIN F lounge time!!!

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[Pushka]

I didn't debate your statistics. They were for total passengers out of Adelaide, not passengers flying Qanats. We're talking about why Qantas couldn't sustain a route, not the general international market ex Adelaide. You have speculated the reason it was axed was because Qanatas didn't want to put the larger aircraft on the route (which they already had). You also boldly said it was Qantas' strategy to reduce seats ("Clearly") without any evidence. That my friend is speculation.

Darwin is relevant because for a long time that was Adelaide's only international flight. It was felt at the time that Adelaide couldn't support its own flight so it operated via Darwin to increase loads (no that's not speculation, that's from an insider at Darwin airport).
Snip.
.

The only thing I speculated on was that Qantas didn't want to put the larger planes out of Adelaide. The rest is fact.

Cutting flights = reducing seats. Which was done before the international flights were axed. So of course the numbers using Qi were down simply because there were fewer Qi flights from ADL that people could fly on. How on earth is that speculation?

Like I said. Never flew from ADL to Darwin for international but simply straight to SIN so I'm not engaging at all in that discussion focus as I know nothing about it. While it might have been nice for Darwin people I'd say that if having to connect domestically back then to get international then people would opt for MEL then SYD and not Darwin. So 'and this is speculation' - if people thought like me then the ADL - Darwin connect was a bust as people would avoid it.

But clearly Qantas wasn't able to do what several other airlines can, and that is to continue to provide an international flight to an Australian capital city.

How strange, business people prefer making money over loosing it.

Business Models can be manipulated to create profit and loss centres. As other airlines seem to manage it then why couldn't Qantas?

Some people actually like living in Adelaide despite the disadvantages of QF having no direct international flights

Well yes and while I enjoy the lounges in Mel and Syd it does add maybe four - five hours to what can be an excessively long trip to Europe.

 

[drron]

The reason QF cant get as high loadings out of PER,ADL to SIN has been explained.They basically only appealed to those flying to SIN or onwards to LHR.
Flying SQ to SIN they would connect at their hub to worldwide destinations so being more attractive to those who dislike more than 1 connection.Simiarly for CX,MH etc to their hubs.
The QF hubs are basically SYD and MEL.ADL has no chance of ever being a hub.

 

[michaele]

But clearly Qantas wasn't able to do what several other airlines can, and that is to continue to provide an international flight to an Australian capital city.

Because those airlines are flying into their hubs before routing you onwards - unless for example, you were wanting to actually specifically visit Doha?

QF does provide you with that option. It's hub is SYD (and to a lesser extent MEL) - where you can fly onwards to many destinations all over the world direct or with 1 stop.

The MEL-PER-LHR also gives you 1 stop into LHR without backtracking by flying ADL-PER-LHR. If you're flying to anywhere else in Europe (ie not LHR) you would have to backtrack from LHR or change in DXB anyway. Isn't the new service better for you - without the backtracking to the east coast?

 

[Daver6]

What's the BA F lounge like in SIN?

 

[kermatu]

What's the BA F lounge like in SIN?

Peaceful, quiet, comfortable, good beverages, average food, great and well-serviced bathrooms.



This is not the Concorde room though. It's the J lounge.

 

[Himeno]

What's the BA F lounge like in SIN?

There isn't a BA F lounge in SIN. The BA lounge is the old QF/BA F lounge (with the QF lounge being the old QF/BA J lounge).
They kept it with the old F fit out for a year or so after the BA/QF JV ended, but have since redone it. With 3 BA flights using it at around the same time (2 to LHR, 1 to SYD), it's likely to be crowded.

 

[drron]

But there is Tony Hancocks Concorde Bar.Only for F pax and BA elites.Keep all those other OW elites out.

 

[kermatu]

Only pax flying F on BA is my understanding?? So QF F pax won't get into the Concorde room.

 

[drron]

Only pax flying F on BA is my understanding?? So QF F pax won't get into the Concorde room.

That's right.Keep as many colonials as possible out!