Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altitude)

[concorde71]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Correct, it was never allowed to be used, as the fleet was not allowed to be expanded whilst they "Showed cause"..... Seems crazy that they have maintenance issues yet CASA wont let them use a factory fresh aircraft and service the rest.
Just my humble opinion as a pleb, and an "odd" DJ traveller

 

[Sprucegoose]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Happy to be in the "dont fly Tiger" group, but not the "we are all QF people" group .

Here is how airfleets see their fleet:

[TD="class: tdtexten"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 30%"][/TD]

[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 19%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 15%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]
[TD="class: tdtexten, width: 18%"][/TD]

I was talking about my business colleagues, not the chappies here on this forum - an eclectic bunch !!!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

CASA are a typical Government department. Arrogant, rude, abrupt full of little people, and veryyyyyyy sloooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
So dont expect any rush on announcements

What was the reasoning for your views Concorde? Certainly a thankless job at best. They need to get it right all the time.

 

[codash1099]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Correct, it was never allowed to be used, as the fleet was not allowed to be expanded whilst they "Showed cause"..... Seems crazy that they have maintenance issues yet CASA wont let them use a factory fresh aircraft and service the rest.
Just my humble opinion as a pleb, and an "odd" DJ traveller

I guess TT could have kept the newer aircraft and sent an older one to SIN. Unless, of course, no fleet alterations were allowed rather than simply no expansion.

 

[concorde71]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

What was the reasoning for your views Concorde? Certainly a thankless job at best. They need to get it right all the time.

Had too many dealings with overzealous cough Government departments over the past 20 years. My Job involves dealing with transport departments in all states, and I can tell you, they are the most pathetic, unrealistic pack of xx_xx_xxs you will ever deal with., They are arrogant, and will not see sense or reasoning in anything. They get their minds set on something and its their way or the highway. I dont doubt that their was issues, I think we all know that, however, from EXPERIENCE dealing with Government departments, over 2 decades, I feel I am qualified to give an educated opinion. That being said, we all must tow the line, pi$$ in their pockets, make them feel important, and they can be swung around. Nobody wants to see a Tiger crater, however, from what I have read and seen, they are not the only culprits. :-|

 

[straitman]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

concorde71,

After working with and around CASA types for about 40 years I believe you are being a little harsh. I know and know of many CASA FOIs and whilst most are really tough there are not very many who are unreasonable. (There's always exceptions) They work within some pretty stringent rules and their job is enforcement and it is on their heads if they do not do it properly.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Not saying that I necessarily agree with all his comments but there is an interesting editorial by Paul Phelan -
http://www.aviationadvertiser.com.a...they-can”-–-editorial-opinion-by-paul-phelan/

Interesting because it goes into quite some detail about the mechanism CASA uses when it takes action to suspend an AOC.
cheers
N'oz

 

[concorde71]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

concorde71,

After working with and around CASA types for about 40 years I believe you are being a little harsh. I know and know of many CASA FOIs and whilst most are really tough there are not very many who are unreasonable. (There's always exceptions) They work within some pretty stringent rules and their job is enforcement and it is on their heads if they do not do it properly.

You make some good points, however, my experience with people with enforcement authority in Government is they are all smartarses. Nobody can deny the fact that the decision needed to be made in this case. Guidelines are in place for a reason, and the fact that they didnt get their cough together since march, and then broke the rules again is enough reason to ground them. Just the general, " I have the power to F%$ you over and close your business" attitude of the bloody government departments, and their toffee nosed little hitlers is pathetic. Last time I checked we were not in a communist dictatorship. Or are we? our rules and regs for all industries are higher and harsher than most other countries, yet our whacked out public servents are still at best, mediocre

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Personally, I'm a little uncomfortable with how many of you self appointed high flyers can't let your mental capacity move past your unalienable association between the terms bogan and budget.

A person who flies on a LCC airline may be a bogan but more likely than not, he/she is someone as couth and refined as you, who simply cannot justify a higher fare when they don't need to pay it, or in other words, see little or no value to their travel in the more expensive products on offer and haven't yet been jaded by sparkling trinkets.

LCCs have had a difficult road to tread in OZ, and we all benefit from those that have gone before. Were those who flocked to Compass I & II bogans? How many of you actually flew Compass? Are all those who tried DJ in previous years Bogans? Are all those who currently fly JQ bogans? Perhaps you should restrict your criticism to the management rather than the client. Play the ball, not the player. I for one hope TT don't go belly-up, but of course they must be held accountable for compliance and safety.

I have never flown TT but that is simply because the product on offer doesn't suit my requirements. I think many of you do yourselves a disservice by pretending that because you've conned someone into paying for a more expensive seat, it makes you somewhat better. Many of your traits or skills may make you somewhat better in a particular field, but the price you're prepared to pay for an airline seat is not one of them.

 

[haydensydney]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Personally, I'm a little uncomfortable with how many of you self appointed high flyers can't let your mental capacity move past your unalienable association between the terms bogan and budget.

Not being harsh, but the ultra budget end of the market does bring the bogan collective out of the woodwork. Those who used to "drive the kids to Dubbo in the Tirana", are now flying to Hobart on Tiger. Those who used to spend their weekly dole money on the Pokies @ the local club are now flying on Tiger to the Gold Coast.

Many of these people are bogans. Sad but true.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Not being harsh, but the ultra budget end of the market does bring the bogan collective out of the woodwork.

Yes you are being harsh. Have you yourself flown TT? No win situation there I'm afraid......if you say yes, then you too must be a bogan (under your rather ingenuous generalisations) and if you say no, then your opinion is dismissed as heresay or even fabrication!

Edit: Just last week.......OOL-SYD

TT - $40
JQ - $39

So perhaps we'll expand that.....have you yourself flown JQ.......Yes?..bogan. No?...Heresay


Edit 2:
Actually I nearly forgot........I bought 8 x DJ fares OOL-SYD and SYD-OOL last Thursday for $36.50. Does that make me also part of the bogan collective?

If it does, I'm happy to stay there........I haven't seen fares that cheap for ages!

 

[haydensydney]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Yes you are being harsh. Have you yourself flown TT? No win situation there I'm afraid......if you say yes, then you too must be a bogan (under your rather ingenuous generalisations) and if you say no, then your opinion is dismissed as heresay or even fabrication!

Edit: Just last week.......OOL-SYD

TT - $40
JQ - $39

So perhaps we'll expand that.....have you yourself flown JQ.......Yes?..bogan. No?...Heresay

Yes, flown JQ... so yes, I'm a bogan - but a classy bogan at that

Never flown Tiger, but i've seen many a bogan family pass around KFC at the check-in lines in SYD previously.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Never flown Tiger, but i've seen many a bogan family pass around KFC at the check-in lines in SYD previously.

Well if that classifies someone as a bogan then I'm afraid Qlink has their share if the family who boarded QF2209 recently are an example.
They not only handed round the KFC but the Krispy Kreme as well.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[drron]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

This is just another shot in the Governments war against smaller business.

The fetid stench of ineptitude and corruption is thick in the air.

My goodness,they must have some very good stuff in ADL!:shock:

 

[kamchatsky]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Yes, flown JQ... so yes, I'm a bogan - but a classy bogan at that

Never flown Tiger, but i've seen many a bogan family pass around KFC at the check-in lines in SYD previously.

Well I have flown TT a number of times, then I must be a bogan. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

But then again, I have flown JQ as well. Should I be classy bogan then? :shock:

What about flying DJ and even QF? Am I Sophisticated?

Actually, make that J on NZ, SQ, VS, OZ, TG, CA? Maybe I should be "Snobbish Sophisticated Classy Bogan" then?! :shock:

Frankly speaking, I rank JQ and TT at the same level, based on the customer service I received from both airlines. But then again, I don't see people flying on TT or JQ or any other LCCs are bogans. They are more like opportunists.

 

[ethernet]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

CASA have said they want actually dont wan to drive TT out of business they just want then to "follow the rules" The PAN PH comments seems a bit harsh in that TT have actually done some serious breaches.

Law. Understand it. Be aware what is plain, is not always as it seems. Pan is a text book example of regulators being right, and getting it oh so wrong. There is a big axe over CASA, should Tiger Stumble or not recover. Want to battle it out over 3 days or 5 days and which straw broke the camels back?

Alleged Pan did some serious breaches too, and they were just as seemingly absolute and measurable.However the end result was that they were destroyed before having a chance to rebut accusations of wrongness. Denied Natural Justice. Five (5) Days may be all it need to destroy Tiger - it does not matter what CASA's intention is, the legal precedent is there. If the shoes we reversed, CASA should be allowing a few planes up, as they will wear the consequences if they misjudge the commercial marketplace. A real new manager is stepping forward, and if he says he has a bag of money and will spend it to fix things, CASA should de-lever their considerable risk position.

As Singapore took 48 hours to decide to send in the 'A' team, that should be a signal that flashes 'PAN' in red. The minister should be very worried, as CASA is may be on the hook for a long time indeed, and they have blown their big stick.

 

[kevrosmith]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

I thought most of the aircraft were transferred in from the TR (Tiger Airways Singapore) fleet? Where's that JP Fleet guide when you need it...

 

[medhead]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

You make some good points, however, my experience with people with enforcement authority in Government is they are all smartarses. Nobody can deny the fact that the decision needed to be made in this case. Guidelines are in place for a reason, and the fact that they didnt get their cough together since march, and then broke the rules again is enough reason to ground them. Just the general, " I have the power to F%$ you over and close your business" attitude of the bloody government departments, and their toffee nosed little hitlers is pathetic. Last time I checked we were not in a communist dictatorship. Or are we? our rules and regs for all industries are higher and harsher than most other countries, yet our whacked out public servents are still at best, mediocre

You do realise that hitler was the opposite of communist

Seriously, I gather you are talking about state government departments, which are very different from commonwealth agencies like CASA. But as a former enforcement type for a state government agency, I think you are making broad generalisations that are far from the truth, probably only relevant for one area. It is a fine balancing action doing the job, you get attacked by industry, like you, and by the public/interest groups. I've been called a cough to industry by such type of interest group. Then the regulators get paid cough because taxpayers don't what to py for regulators. That means any half decent person (yes I'm barely half decent) goes and works for industry and gets paid decent money. It's a thankless job that is totally unappreciated until the do-do hits the fan. Then everyone asks what the regulator was doing: why didn't they protect us?

 

[connieguy]

Re: Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altit

Well if that classifies someone as a bogan then I'm afraid Qlink has their share if the family who boarded QF2209 recently are an example.
They not only handed round the KFC but the Krispy Kreme as well.
Cheers
N'oz

Just flew QF Mel/Adl in J with 3 dozen Krispy Kremes in the overhead locker. Must be a real bogan then as I have also flown TT twice Adl/Syd/Adl. No issues here with TT. Oh BTW that was my first domestic opup. Y cabin was full thanks to TT. Seems strange to thank TT for the QF J seat..... :shock:

 

[markis10]

Just flew QF Mel/Adl in J with 3 dozen Krispy Kremes in the overhead locker. Must be a real bogan then as I have also flown TT twice Adl/Syd/Adl. No issues here with TT. Oh BTW that was my first domestic opup. Y cabin was full thanks to TT. Seems strange to thank TT for the QF J seat..... :shock:

I think the school holidays are more to blame, usually a very good time to get an upgrade.

Law. Understand it. Be aware what is plain, is not always as it seems. Pan is a text book example of regulators being right, and getting it oh so wrong. There is a big axe over CASA, should Tiger Stumble or not recover. Want to battle it out over 3 days or 5 days and which straw broke the camels back..... Five (5) Days may be all it need to destroy Tiger - it does not matter what CASA's intention is, the legal precedent is there. As Singapore took 48 hours to decide to send in the 'A' team, that should be a signal that flashes 'PAN' in red. The minister should be very worried, as CASA is may be on the hook for a long time indeed, and they have blown their big stick.

It has taken a lot longer than 48 hours for Singapore to do something, and its not 5 days for CASA to act, the attainment of an AOC is a long and drawn out process, as is its suspension/removal by CASA, the seeds of last weekends events are to be found in the show cause notice issued March 23 as a result of the cover up of maintenance issues and concerns with pilot training etc.

Ironically it was only a year ago we were discussing the issue of LCCs and safety here:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/open-discussion/the-safety-of-lccs-23680.html