Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[MEL_Traveller]

I think a $5-10,000 bond would do the trick. That's a lot to lose for most.

Most can't afford a $200 fine, wonder how they would find bond of $5000? Others claim they can't afford the $2000 fare home. How are they going to find the bond money? Public outrage over fines for people deliberately breaking the rules to return from India means we have little or no effective enforcement

 

[mviy]

Most can't afford a $200 fine, wonder how they would find bond of $5000? Others claim they can't afford the $2000 fare home. How are they going to find the bond money? Public outrage over fines for people deliberately breaking the rules to return from India means we have little or no effective enforcement

If you can’t afford the bond then you should only be allowed to leave the country if you meet existing exemption criteria and do hotel quarantine. We’re talking about ways to relax the restrictions for more people to be able to travel above the existing caps. Fines are not as effective as bonds. With bonds the fines are prepaid whereas with fines some may choose not to pay and potentially get away with it. So fines alone are nowhere near as effective a deterrent to doing the wrong thing.

A bond would also help to sort out whether trips are really important or not. If they are important then you will find a way to find the cash for it.

 

[arrow]

While I have sympathy for your situation and without going into my own, we cannot make national policy based on 0.000001% of the population. If she has that threatening a condition, is immunocompromised and is unable to be vaccinated then i probably should have added another zero, but my advice would be for her not to be around children at all as they are germ factories.

Spot on!

 

[The man with no name]

While I have sympathy for your situation and without going into my own, we cannot make national policy based on 0.000001% of the population. If she has that threatening a condition, is immunocompromised and is unable to be vaccinated then i probably should have added another zero, but my advice would be for her not to be around children at all as they are germ factories.

Do you really believe that people that cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons represent a number remotely as low as you state?

Using your logic we would also abandon all funding for the disabled because they represent such a small percentage of the community.

 

[N860CR]

Do you really believe that people that cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons represent a number remotely as low as you state?

Using your logic we would also abandon all funding for the disabled because they represent such a small percentage of the community.

I believe those who categorically cannot get the vaccination would be a very low number. Do you honestly believe it’s reasonable or practical to continue these incredibly damaging and draconian measures because of such a small percentage of the population?

People seem to forget that COVID is far from a death sentence. Not being vaccinated does not equal death.

 

[Pushka]

An immunologist from the UK was saying on ABC radio last night that because Australia has shielded itself from the virus we have created exactly the same situation as when European settlers arrived here a couple of hundred years and there was mass infection and serious illness and death amongst the indigenous community.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I believe those who categorically cannot get the vaccination would be a very low number. Do you honestly believe it’s reasonable or practical to continue these incredibly damaging and draconian measures because of such a small percentage of the population?

People seem to forget that COVID is far from a death sentence. Not being vaccinated does not equal death.

Depends on the person getting it. If they are immunocompromised to the extent they can't get the vaccine, the outcome may be death.

But it is the wider implications... even if covid doesn't cause death it can force dozens into isolation and hundreds of hours wasted for people lining up for testing.

 

[N860CR]

Depends on the person getting it. If they are immunocompromised to the extent they can't get the vaccine, the outcome may be death.

But it is the wider implications... even if covid doesn't cause death it can force dozens into isolation and hundreds of hours wasted for people lining up for testing.

It may be death. But realistically, said person would likely have the same result from any number of other viruses.

People are suggesting we continue with this covid circus until there is global “elimination”. It simply not realistic.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It may be death. But realistically, said person would likely have the same result from any number of other viruses.

People are suggesting we continue with this covid circus until there is global “elimination”. It simply not realistic.

Agree. But with only 5% of the population vaccinated it might be premature to be having the discussion on who gets 'left behind'.

 

[Pushka]

Agree. But with only 5% of the population vaccinated it might be premature to be having the discussion on who gets 'left behind'.

8% fully vaccinated but the metric has to be 'offered' and with a few weeks grace period.

 

[Lynda2475]

it might be premature to be having the discussion on who gets 'left behind'

Disagree, the criteria should have been agreed long before now, people need a detailed plan and goals to track to. Need to make in abundantly clear the consequences for those that drag their feet, and not keep everyone locked down and cut off indefinitely because of a minority.

 

[arrow]

Depends on the person getting it. If they are immunocompromised to the extent they can't get the vaccine, the outcome may be death.

But it is the wider implications... even if covid doesn't cause death it can force dozens into isolation and hundreds of hours wasted for people lining up for testing.

The whole point is that when there is a certain level of vaccination there wouldn’t be this circus of isolation and testing. We would agree that (like the flu) it poses a low risk to the broader community and we continue on with our lives

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The whole point is that when there is a certain level of vaccination there wouldn’t be this circus of isolation and testing. We would agree that (like the flu) it poses a low risk to the broader community and we continue on with our lives

Maybe... but those working in health care, or in contact with the most vulnerable, may still require frequent testing. If one nurse in a covid ward gets the virus, it could mean all staff that were primary contacts need to isolate, etc. Lots of things to be worked out.

 

[Pushka]

Disagree, the criteria should have been agreed long before now, people need a detailed plan and goals to track to. Need to make in abundantly clear the consequences for those that drag their feet, and not keep everyone locked down and cut off indefinitely because of a minority.

Unfortunately the message "this isn't a race" is stuck in many peoples minds. And later poor messaging compounds the problem. Only when specific deadlines and targets have been announced will many do anything.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Unfortunately the message "this isn't a race" is stuck in many peoples minds. And later poor messaging compounds the problem. Only when specific deadlines and targets have been announced will many do anything.

I don't know how successful 'vaccinate so businesspeople can travel' will be? Or 'vaccinate so students can come'? Doesn't seem like a call to action for the vast majority of people

 

[JB expat]

I don't know how successful 'vaccinate so businesspeople can travel' will be? Or 'vaccinate so students can come'? Doesn't seem like a call to action for the vast majority of people

Vaccinate so we won't need further lockdowns. Vaccinate so you can attend any event with more than 10 people. Vaccinate so you don't have a medicare non-vaccination levy applied. Vaccinate so we can increase incoming passengers allowing your fellow Australian citizens stuck overseas can come home. Vaccinate so that your friends here in Australia who have family overseas can see them for the first time in 2 years (that's being optimistic). These are things they can do.

I don't know why you think everyone is yelling about business travel. Yes, business travel is part of it, but it isn't the main reason why everyone is so upset - only a small part of it.

 

[Pushka]

I don't know how successful 'vaccinate so businesspeople can travel' will be? Or 'vaccinate so students can come'? Doesn't seem like a call to action for the vast majority of people

Yes agree. But where did Business Travel come into the discussion here? I think the plan sucks by the way. Young people will want to live a normal life, have parties, go dancing. That is a hook for them. Older people - there is a demand amongst new retirees to travel, many overseas. Time is running out for them. Get. Vaccinated.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Vaccinate so we won't need further lockdowns. Vaccinate so you can attend any event with more than 10 people. Vaccinate so you don't have a medicare non-vaccination levy applied. Vaccinate so we can increase incoming passengers allowing your fellow Australian citizens stuck overseas can come home. Vaccinate so that your friends here in Australia who have family overseas can see them for the first time in 2 years (that's being optimistic). These are things they can do.

I don't know why you think everyone is yelling about business travel. Yes, business travel is part of it, but it isn't the main reason why everyone is so upset - only a small part of it.

Business travel came from the PM himself. Trials for home quarantine etc and trialling opening up the borders… all initially for business travellers.

All the reasons you list I have mentioned before and agree with. But that isn’t the messaging unfortunately. The messaging at the moment is commercial… business and students. When i mentioned we should be allowing front line workers first chance to go overseas, should they want to, that wasn’t thought to be such a good idea on AFF. That would have been an incentive!

 

[JB expat]

Business travel came from the PM himself. Trials for home quarantine etc and trialling opening up the borders… all initially for business travellers.

All the reasons you list I have mentioned before and agree with. But that isn’t the messaging unfortunately. The messaging at the moment is commercial… business and students. When i mentioned we should be allowing front line workers first chance to go overseas, should they want to, that wasn’t thought to be such a good idea on AFF. That would have been an incentive!

The overwhelming majority of Australians don't care about going overseas (and I bet that includes healthcare workers...some might, but I think that is a losing marketing campaign generally (winning for those on AFF - but we are in the minority). However, some of the carrots/sticks I mention would impact the majority of Australians. It just needs to be spelled out clearly - but the "plan" lacks clarity and by mentioning business travel and foreign students without the clarity around the more meaningful aspects (along with vaccine targets so it is transparent and everyone can cheer as the country approaches the goal).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the majority of Aussies don’t want to travel, fine. Why not include them? (they won’t be flying anyway) As soon as we start restricting it to privileged people I think the messaging suffers